Genetic "fix" for Gays

[dbigtex56]

my dad can't understand why it takes me longer than him to get ready for work. i have to confirm doctor's appointments. i have to put clothes in the dryer. i have to write a note for my nephew's teacher(s). i have to write a check to the insurance company. all he has to do is put his clothes on and get out the door. he's lost without my mom. what scares me..............if my mom dies before him.......he's lost without me. "to thine own self be true........" i'm not a genius. i'm not a bread winner. i'm a freakin comforter..........a soothsayer, a rainmaker. i'm someone else's better half.

post hoc ergo proptor hoc.

Does your dad attempt to understand? Does it even matter if he does? Because if you're thinking that you can do something to win his approval...well, you can't. He either appreciates you or he doesn't.

Incidentally, where was he when his grandchild needed rescuing? You were man enough to take on that responsibility. Now that's a mensch.

I think it's admirable that you can provide for and take care of yourself. What's so great about being inept at domestic duties? If knitting baby booties makes you happy, then go ahead and do it. If football games and shotguns bore you, who cares? Your penis will remain firmly attached. In fact, men who obsessively restrict themselves to hypermasculine pursuits strike me as being a bit desperate.

Feeling OK about who you are doesn't mean giving up your moral principles, and I certainly don't advocate doing anything which would violate them. I would suggest that you examine them, and determine which are your own, and which are someone else's.

[North End]

bachanon, as a gay Catholic, I agree with you 100%. Especially when you said, not knowing how one became gay is more of a sin, because usually, not with all, all responsibility is lost when just giving the easy answer of I was born gay. This is why I was known as a "conservative" amongst many of my friends in Boston because I tried to find middle ground on the issue. Some may say I am a hypocrite because I have custody of my late friend's daughter but I received custody of her when she was 15. In my mind, I thought of the "consequences", but I saw more of the good I was doing than the bad. I am in my mid 30's, and if I have not found out by now, I will never find out the exact answer of how one's sexuality is drawn out.

[Parrothead]

this comment is just as closed minded as the original tossing a football comment, if not worse.

Yes, but musicman, you forget, only minorities can speak their minds about stereotypes. It's their right. The rest of us should be privileged to just hear their sweet words being typed out on the screen.

how can you know "for a fact" that you were born gay? simply because your memories involve attraction to other guys does not mean that you were born gay. some of my earliest memories involve seeing demons in my bedroom. this does not mean that demons exist or that i can see into the spirit realm. i also believed that santa brought me gifts and ate the cookies i left, yet he does not exist. our perception of ourselves and the world around us is never completely true.

i too was never attracted to girls. i too always felt a comfort in the acceptance of other guys before i even knew what sex was. this does not mean i was born gay. this simply means that i had an emotional need that wasn't being fulfilled from the men in my childhood. add puberty to this equation and you have homosexual desire.

i've found that homosexuals need to comfort themselves by finding reasons that homosexuality is somehow unchangeable, genetic. truth is, sexuality is fluid. why is it that pedophiles become determined to prey on youngsters? were pedophiles born that way? i think not. if they were born that way, would it be a crime?

understand that i do not intend to belittle the struggle or trials of someone who has grown up gay. i understand the dilemma. however, i'm not one to take the easy way out. i cannot comfort myself with easy ideals that allow me to behave like there is no issue to be dealt with. what if? what if homosexuality is a condition of certain socio/sexual immaturities? i'm still not sure that my thinking on this issue is correct. however, i think that my questions are valid.

i'm aware of the un-PC nature of these statements. however, people once believed that the world was flat. it was un-PC to think of the world as round.

i'd give anything to find others who honestly attempt to tackle these questions. i'm exhausted at the regurgitation of christians (homosexuality is a sin) and the PC crowd (homosexuality is natural). it is neither. the truth is in the middle, somehow.

That's about the most honest post I've seen on the subject.

[musicman]

Yes, but musicman, you forget, only minorities can speak their minds about stereotypes. It's their right.

i think anyone can as long as the audience understands your intent. i do ask very direct questions when i want to learn something or just dont understand something about a certain group and they should feel free to do the same to me!

i remember one time someone told me..."well you know how you hispanics are, yall all pile into the car at eat tomatos" of course i had heard the piling into the car thing....but the tomato thing i had never heard before. so then i had to ask my mom and other friends if they had heard that as well.

[Ralo]

Yes, but musicman, you forget, only minorities can speak their minds about stereotypes. It's their right. The rest of us should be privileged to just hear their sweet words being typed out on the screen.

Parrothead - I know this sort of belongs in a different thread but . . . I read your now infamous post and I can certainly see how you would feel that way. I found many responses to your post quite puzzling, hateful, and taken out of context. I found your honesty refreshing.

[ssullivan]

This thread has made me think about a lot of things, and brought out some old feelings I've not had in quite a while. To be honest, I really don't know why or how I became blessed with a sexual orientation that has me attracted only to other men. But I don't consider it a sin to say I believe I was born this way, nor do I consider that to be the easy way out. Yes, I do believe that there is a good deal of scientific evidence that indicates that sexual orientation is not chosen. Whether that's the result of genes, something in the environment, or hormonal levels during pregnancy, or something entirely different, I don't know, but I also really don't care. The fact is I am who I am, and I spent a lot of my earlier life struggling not only to understand myself but also struggling to find happiness in being a person that everyone else around me seemed to think I should be. I don't believe that my sexual orientation is all that fluid or that it can be changed. Believe me, I tried. While many of my heterosexual peers were loving life during their childhood, teenage years, and early 20s, I was trying to appear happy on the outside while slowly dying of confusion, shame, and depression on the inside. It was only when I let go of all that, and started to embrace who I am, and learn to like myself as I am, that I started to find happiness. It took a long time, and a lot of counseling, for me to be comfortable in my own skin.

Now, as a guy in my early 30s, I'm very comfortable with who I am, and I am generally very happy. Forgive me if "taking the easy road" and believing that I was always gay (which I do... HTownWxBoy's posts earlier in this thread on that topic could have been written by myself) is wrong. But the fact is that accepting myself for who I am and believing that this is how I was created and who I was meant to be has given me a lot of peace that questioning my sexual orientation and fighting to conform to society's image of the ideal man could never have provided. Why should I question certain things if all I get as a result is depression and misery, coupled with thoughts of ending my own life? I'm sorry. I had enough of that during my first 25 years. I refuse to go back.

Love me or hate me, I am who I am. I'm a man, who is well aware of the fact that I have a penis, which is fully functional and just happens to like other men. I have my masculine traits, but I'm not the least bit ashamed to admit that I have my more feminine side as well. I enjoy going to an Astros game with some of my guy friends just as much as any heterosexual man with a wife and kids. Yet I also enjoy taking care of my home just as much as some of my very traditional heterosexual female friends. I do a great job at that traditional manly task of going out and having a career and earning a living, yet I also am told by my boyfriend that I'm a pretty darn good cook. At times I may be very "butch," and at other times my more fabulous side emerges. The fact is, I don't feel like I have to conform to anyone else's standards of masculinity to be loved or accepted. Being who I am, and doing what comes natural to me may be the easy way out, but it also has brought me the most happiness and success in my life. Just because I'll never have a wife and might never procreate doesn't mean I'm not a man who is mature and makes a contribution to our society. I may be gay and pretty darn happy about that, but I still have a successful career, comfortable home, great friends, someone special I really care about, and the time and resources to volunteer in the community in ways that do make this a better world.

This world takes all types, and I don't believe that there is only one way to be a man or a woman. Our world would probably be a lot happier place and much more peaceful if people would just learn to accept and embrace the differences that exist among us and stop trying to force those who are different in some way from the majority to be who they aren't.

[bachanon]

This thread has made me think about a lot of things, and brought out some old feelings I've not had in quite a while. To be honest, I really don't know why or how I became blessed with a sexual orientation that has me attracted only to other men. But I don't consider it a sin to say I believe I was born this way, nor do I consider that to be the easy way out. Yes, I do believe that there is a good deal of scientific evidence that indicates that sexual orientation is not chosen. Whether that's the result of genes, something in the environment, or hormonal levels during pregnancy, or something entirely different, I don't know, but I also really don't care. The fact is I am who I am, and I spent a lot of my earlier life struggling not only to understand myself but also struggling to find happiness in being a person that everyone else around me seemed to think I should be. I don't believe that my sexual orientation is all that fluid or that it can be changed. Believe me, I tried. While many of my heterosexual peers were loving life during their childhood, teenage years, and early 20s, I was trying to appear happy on the outside while slowly dying of confusion, shame, and depression on the inside. It was only when I let go of all that, and started to embrace who I am, and learn to like myself as I am, that I started to find happiness. It took a long time, and a lot of counseling, for me to be comfortable in my own skin.

Now, as a guy in my early 30s, I'm very comfortable with who I am, and I am generally very happy. Forgive me if "taking the easy road" and believing that I was always gay (which I do... HTownWxBoy's posts earlier in this thread on that topic could have been written by myself) is wrong. But the fact is that accepting myself for who I am and believing that this is how I was created and who I was meant to be has given me a lot of peace that questioning my sexual orientation and fighting to conform to society's image of the ideal man could never have provided. Why should I question certain things if all I get as a result is depression and misery, coupled with thoughts of ending my own life? I'm sorry. I had enough of that during my first 25 years. I refuse to go back.

Love me or hate me, I am who I am. I'm a man, who is well aware of the fact that I have a penis, which is fully functional and just happens to like other men. I have my masculine traits, but I'm not the least bit ashamed to admit that I have my more feminine side as well. I enjoy going to an Astros game with some of my guy friends just as much as any heterosexual man with a wife and kids. Yet I also enjoy taking care of my home just as much as some of my very traditional heterosexual female friends. I do a great job at that traditional manly task of going out and having a career and earning a living, yet I also am told by my boyfriend that I'm a pretty darn good cook. At times I may be very "butch," and at other times my more fabulous side emerges. The fact is, I don't feel like I have to conform to anyone else's standards of masculinity to be loved or accepted. Being who I am, and doing what comes natural to me may be the easy way out, but it also has brought me the most happiness and success in my life. Just because I'll never have a wife and might never procreate doesn't mean I'm not a man who is mature and makes a contribution to our society. I may be gay and pretty darn happy about that, but I still have a successful career, comfortable home, great friends, someone special I really care about, and the time and resources to volunteer in the community in ways that do make this a better world.

This world takes all types, and I don't believe that there is only one way to be a man or a woman. Our world would probably be a lot happier place and much more peaceful if people would just learn to accept and embrace the differences that exist among us and stop trying to force those who are different in some way from the majority to be who they aren't.

wow, i want to be where you are at. most of my posts are philosophical contemplations. my ideals and what is practical do not always line up. in no way do i mean to belittle anyone. i'm 41. i'm tired of worrying about what others think of me or who i should've/could've been. me thinks it's time to get off the cross and live a little. i envy guys like you. and you are right, there is no specific way to be a man or a woman. i'm simply trying to accept the fact that i'm a man who doesn't like a lot of "manly" things. but who's to say what is manly, right?

[HtownWxBoy]

[ssullivan]

Don't worry, bachanon, I didn't take any of your posts as belittling. For each of us it's a struggle. We all have our different things to deal with in life and struggle with, and each of us has to work through them in our own time.

[musicman]

wow, i want to be where you are at. most of my posts are philosophical contemplations. my ideals and what is practical do not always line up. in no way do i mean to belittle anyone. i'm 41. i'm tired of worrying about what others think of me or who i should've/could've been. me thinks it's time to get off the cross and live a little. i envy guys like you.

sounds like the haif therapy is doing you well. where do we send the bill?

This world takes all types, and I don't believe that there is only one way to be a man or a woman. Our world would probably be a lot happier place and much more peaceful if people would just learn to accept and embrace the differences that exist among us and stop trying to force those who are different in some way from the majority to be who they aren't.

good post ssullivan and i agree with your ultimate paragraph 100%

[bachanon]

there is cindy, who cuts my hair, and haif. both are cheap therapy. thanks guys.

[Parrothead]

Parrothead - I know this sort of belongs in a different thread but . . . I read your now infamous post and I can certainly see how you would feel that way. I found many responses to your post quite puzzling, hateful, and taken out of context. I found your honesty refreshing.

Thanks a lot Ralo, I appreciate that.

[Parrothead]

Our world would probably be a lot happier place and much more peaceful if people would just learn to accept and embrace the differences that exist among us and stop trying to force those who are different in some way from the majority to be who they aren't.

I get what you are saying, and I admire it for all its utopian qualities. The thing is, there are many in the so-called "majority" who feel the same way. I mean, this very quote can be used the other way around. Not for me, necessarily, as we already know my history with fabulous gay people (and the not-so-fabulous gay people, errrrr....) , but you know what I mean? My opinion is, people shouldn't have to "embrace" anything that goes against their values. Accepting is one thing, embracing is another. This is why the majority believes minorities don't want equal treatment; they want special treatment.

I've embraced enough gay people to fill a freaking building though

[musicman]

My opinion is, people shouldn't have to "embrace" anything that goes against their values. Accepting is one thing, embracing is another. This is why the majority believes minorities don't want equal treatment; they want special treatment.

wow! as a minority i don't feel that i need special treatment and i have never received it as far as i know. can you mention a couple examples that made you come to that conclusion?

[nmainguy]

wow! as a minority i don't feel that i need special treatment and i have never received it as far as i know. can you mention a couple examples that made you come to that conclusion?

I'd like to know as well since the ony people I see getting special treatment are heterosexuals.

[Parrothead]

wow! as a minority i don't feel that i need special treatment and i have never received it as far as i know. can you mention a couple examples that made you come to that conclusion?

I never said I came to that conclusion....I said it seems to be the majority's attitude. Of course, there are exceptions to everything, now, aren't there? I mean, technically, being a woman, I'm a minority, and you don't see me running around screaming to be treated differently or more special. I just get treated that way because I am wonderful.

I hope that clears that up a bit.

[webdude]

I never said I came to that conclusion....I said it seems to be the majority's attitude. Of course, there are exceptions to everything, now, aren't there? I mean, technically, being a woman, I'm a minority, and you don't see me running around screaming to be treated differently or more special. I just get treated that way because I am wonderful.

I hope that clears that up a bit.

Actually, most minorities asked to be treated equally, not differently or more special. Of course some folks will twist and lie saying most of these minorities are asking for more than equality.

These folks aren't really going to admit they don't like people who are different. In this PC age, they will try harder to find legitimate excuses to mask bigotry.

Like the boss doesn't want a woman/black/gay/whatever different to be promoted to supervisor, they are not going to say that in front of his/her face, he is going to find something else legitimate.

Or gay marriages, people will try to find legitimate(but still really bad) excuses to discredit gay marriage, using stuff like family stability, having kids, but when being pointed out single parent families, non-children couples, old couples, and things like gay family's higher income, adoption, they start changing to other excuses to its not traditional or some other crap.

Its getting harder to deal with these kind of crap as bigots try harder and harder to mask their real intentions, and if the minority catches it but points it out just a little too loudly, they get accused of asking for more than equality or special treatment.

[nmainguy]

Actually, most minorities asked to be treated equally, not differently or more special. Of course some folks will twist and lie saying most of these minorities are asking for more than equality.

These folks aren't really going to admit they don't like people who are different. In this PC age, they will try harder to find legitimate excuses to mask bigotry.

Like the boss doesn't want a woman/black/gay/whatever different to be promoted to supervisor, they are not going to say that in front of his/her face, he is going to find something else legitimate.

Or gay marriages, people will try to find legitimate(but still really bad) excuses to discredit gay marriage, using stuff like family stability, having kids, but when being pointed out single parent families, non-children couples, old couples, and things like gay family's higher income, adoption, they start changing to other excuses to its not traditional or some other crap.

Its getting harder to deal with these kind of crap as bigots try harder and harder to mask their real intentions, and if the minority catches it but points it out just a little too loudly, they get accused of asking for more than equality or special treatment.

Well said. I find the "majority's attitude" cop out is a flimsy cover for bigotry-especially when those persons probably don't even know wht the "majoritys attitude" actually is.

[dbigtex56]

I get what you are saying, and I admire it for all its utopian qualities. The thing is, there are many in the so-called "majority" who feel the same way. I mean, this very quote can be used the other way around. Not for me, necessarily, as we already know my history with fabulous gay people (and the not-so-fabulous gay people, errrrr....) , but you know what I mean? My opinion is, people shouldn't have to "embrace" anything that goes against their values. Accepting is one thing, embracing is another. This is why the majority believes minorities don't want equal treatment; they want special treatment.

I've embraced enough gay people to fill a freaking building though

I never said I came to that conclusion....I said it seems to be the majority's attitude. Of course, there are exceptions to everything, now, aren't there? I mean, technically, being a woman, I'm a minority, and you don't see me running around screaming to be treated differently or more special. I just get treated that way because I am wonderful.

I hope that clears that up a bit.

There's some "special treatment" you might not enjoy so much. How many people do you know who have had people yell "Breeder!" at them as they walk down the street? Or had the snot knocked out of them by strangers sneering "Take that, straightie!"? Or had a boss who lets them know in no uncertain terms that their heterosexuality condemns them to hell, so feels entirely justified in treating them like crap?

How would you like knowing that you could never mention your husband in certain circumstances? That you had to pretend neither he nor your marriage ever existed?

Just for the record, as a woman you're in the majority. Just thought I'd straighten that out for you (no pun intended.) Also, just because the majority of people hold an attitude doesn't make it right. Before activists such as Susan B. Anthony worked on changing peoples minds, the majority seemed to hold the attitude that women should be denied the right to vote.

So far as your history with fabulous gay people, I gather these are people you met in bars. If the only straight people I've known had been ones I'd met in bars, I'd probably have certain erroneous notions about how 'they' act. Some gay people aren't "fabulous". Some Negroes don't tap dance, too. Also, I've known some very generous Jews, and some loving Christians who don't feel that it's their place to judge who does and does not go to Heaven. I guess they figure that's God's job.

People don't have to embrace anything that goes against their values. They should, however, be able to reexamine their values when it's pointed out that they kind of suck.

[HtownWxBoy]

I get what you are saying, and I admire it for all its utopian qualities. The thing is, there are many in the so-called "majority" who feel the same way. I mean, this very quote can be used the other way around. Not for me, necessarily, as we already know my history with fabulous gay people (and the not-so-fabulous gay people, errrrr....) , but you know what I mean? My opinion is, people shouldn't have to "embrace" anything that goes against their values. Accepting is one thing, embracing is another. This is why the majority believes minorities don't want equal treatment; they want special treatment.

I've embraced enough gay people to fill a freaking building though

How does the way someone is born, say gay, go against values?? I mean... that's like saying... "I don't like white or black or asian people b/c that goes against my values!"

I'd like to know as well since the ony people I see getting special treatment are heterosexuals.

Ditto

[Parrothead]

There's some "special treatment" you might not enjoy so much. How many people do you know who have had people yell "Breeder!" at them as they walk down the street? Or had the snot knocked out of them by strangers sneering "Take that, straightie!"? Or had a boss who lets them know in no uncertain terms that their heterosexuality condemns them to hell, so feels entirely justified in treating them like crap?

How would you like knowing that you could never mention your husband in certain circumstances? That you had to pretend neither he nor your marriage ever existed?

Just for the record, as a woman you're in the majority. Just thought I'd straighten that out for you (no pun intended.) Also, just because the majority of people hold an attitude doesn't make it right. Before activists such as Susan B. Anthony worked on changing peoples minds, the majority seemed to hold the attitude that women should be denied the right to vote.

So far as your history with fabulous gay people, I gather these are people you met in bars. If the only straight people I've known had been ones I'd met in bars, I'd probably have certain erroneous notions about how 'they' act. Some gay people aren't "fabulous". Some Negroes don't tap dance, too. Also, I've known some very generous Jews, and some loving Christians who don't feel that it's their place to judge who does and does not go to Heaven. I guess they figure that's God's job.

People don't have to embrace anything that goes against their values. They should, however, be able to reexamine their values when it's pointed out that they kind of suck.

Hate to point out your inaccuracies, but as a WOMAN, I am a MINORITY. Look it up.

And, I have had the SNOT knocked out of me by another MINORITY, a hispanic male, at the Daiquiri Factory in 1993 for just BEING there with someone gay--so spare me the hate-crime banter; been there, done that, hired an attorney.

I haven't been condemned to hell in public, but I have been threatened by my boss that if I didn't sleep with him, I'd be fired. I was also felt up by my direct supervisor at a Christmas party. Charming.

I didn't meet all my friends in bars, and to be frank, I resent that remark. I met a lot of my friends in school. What an asinine thing to say. A bit of stereotyping, but I suppose I should embrace it.

Why should anyone have to re-examine their values if their values simply don't agree with yours? Not everyone that disagrees with the gay lifestyle wants to beat the crap out of everyone that happens to be gay. Sheesh. Give me a break.

If you are saying that I "kind of suck", because I simply pointed out how the majority in this country feel (not really news to anyone, btw), without even saying a word about myself, then you are not nearly as intelligent as I had you pegged to be. I never said, insinuated, or SUGGESTED that the point of view I was discussing was right or correct--only YOU made that assumption. I only said they shouldn't have to embrace or even agree with the gay lifestyle. I'm not referring to politics or law, merely regular every-day people.

Ah, well. Another post I make gets twisted into vile-hate-filled spew by the same people.

Life goes on.

[HtownWxBoy]

If you are saying that I "kind of suck", because I simply pointed out how the majority in this country feel (not really news to anyone, btw), without even saying a word about myself, then you are not nearly as intelligent as I had you pegged to be. I never said, insinuated, or SUGGESTED that the point of view I was discussing was right or correct--only YOU made that assumption. I only said they shouldn't have to embrace or even agree with the gay lifestyle. I'm not referring to politics or law, merely regular every-day people.

How is the way someone is born their "lifestyle". That's like saying "I don't like 'white people' or 'women' b/c I disagree with their lifestyle". Moron.

[webdude]

There is disagreeing and then there is DISAGREEING. Some disagreements are just plain wrong.

People used to disagree with interracial marriages, good thing enough ppl saw the need to re-examine those values.

[Parrothead]

Yes, let's resort to calling names. That's mature. If I'm the moron, why is there no proof to your statement? Saying you were "born gay" without any consideration to environmental influences goes against all studies currently published. Perhaps you need to do a bit of reading.

BTW, that was all in the other thread. Right now, my vilification is over what the majority thinks, so be sure to get that straight before you attack in this particular thread. Let's keep things organized, at least.

[Parrothead]

There is disagreeing and then there is DISAGREEING. Some disagreements are just plain wrong.

People used to disagree with interracial marriages, good thing enough ppl saw the need to re-examine those values.

Oh, okay, so what you're saying is, if it disagrees with what you believe, it's wrong? Tell me, at what point is something a disagreement or a DISAGREEMENT? I'd love to hear this one.

As for your second statement, you can't possibly compare the two--for one thing, and most unfortunately, many people still disagree with it; furthermore, marrying someone of a different race was not a value issue based on Biblical scripture.

[HtownWxBoy]

Yes, let's resort to calling names. That's mature. If I'm the moron, why is there no proof to your statement? Saying you were "born gay" without any consideration to environmental influences goes against all studies currently published. Perhaps you need to do a bit of reading.

BTW, that was all in the other thread. Right now, my vilification is over what the majority thinks, so be sure to get that straight before you attack in this particular thread. Let's keep things organized, at least.

Where's your proof being gay is a chosen "lifestyle"?

[HtownWxBoy]

Oh, okay, so what you're saying is, if it disagrees with what you believe, it's wrong? Tell me, at what point is something a disagreement or a DISAGREEMENT? I'd love to hear this one.

As for your second statement, you can't possibly compare the two--for one thing, and most unfortunately, many people still disagree with it; furthermore, marrying someone of a different race was not a value issue based on Biblical scripture.

Oh good grief ... here we go w/ the "biblical scripture" stuff. It's always amazed me how people pull out the "bible" defense when they want to bash gay people. How come they never talk about other things the bible says are wrong like working on Sundays, or wearing clothes made of different fabrics. How come the bible thumpers don't lobby to bring stoning people to death back? According to the bible, men are not supposed to trim the edges of their beards. Should we make a constitutional amendment against that?

They only pull the bible out when it's relevant to today's society.... they never talk about all of the other stuff the bible says that don't make sense anymore.

[webdude]

Oh, okay, so what you're saying is, if it disagrees with what you believe, it's wrong? Tell me, at what point is something a disagreement or a DISAGREEMENT? I'd love to hear this one.

As for your second statement, you can't possibly compare the two--for one thing, and most unfortunately, many people still disagree with it; furthermore, marrying someone of a different race was not a value issue based on Biblical scripture.

Oh, okay, so if you don't agree with my disagreement, then my point is wrong? Twisting my point out of context is not going to help you here. You know exactly what I am talking about, simply stating some couples inequality to get marry is only a simple disagreement doesn't make it true.

And people do reference god a lot when citing reasons for being against interracial marriages.

Here is one famous one from Loving v. Virginia, in court from a judge no less.

"Almighty God created the races white, black, yellow, malay and red, and he placed them on separate continents. And but for the interference with his arrangement there would be no cause for such marriages. The fact that he separated the races shows that he did not intend for the races to mix."

People will use god for anything, just like he is now being used against gay marriages.

Nobody knows his/her true mind, but ppl sure like to say they know god very well.

And a lot of ppl do try to get the bible into our government but I don't think the bible has replace the constitution yet when determining someone's liberty.

[Parrothead]

http://www.houstonarchitecture.info/haif/i...st&p=147729

Currently, the only proof out there is that being gay is a result of environment. Even if you feel it "early on", something has influenced it. Sorry--I hate to break it down that way, but until there is absolute proof otherwise, published in a reputable journal, I am gonna stick with my statements. I am a lot more confident in scientific studies than I am in you. God knows, though, there was a time I definitely believed that my most feminine male friends were born that way. After finding out their histories, it is more clear to me now that they were not.

[HtownWxBoy]

"Almighty God created the races white, black, yellow, malay and red, and he placed them on separate continents. And but for the interference with his arrangement there would be no cause for such marriages. The fact that he separated the races shows that he did not intend for the races to mix."

You just have to laugh at statements like these and the people who make them.

http://www.houstonarchitecture.info/haif/i...st&p=147729

Currently, the only proof out there is that being gay is a result of environment. Even if you feel it "early on", something has influenced it. Sorry--I hate to break it down that way, but until there is absolute proof otherwise, published in a reputable journal, I am gonna stick with my statements. I am a lot more confident in scientific studies than I am in you. God knows, though, there was a time I definitely believed that my most feminine male friends were born that way. After finding out their histories, it is more clear to me now that they were not.

I FEEL IT BABY... I FEEL IT!!