Genetic "fix" for Gays

[bachanon]

allwords.com definition of motherly:

Thesaurus: maternal, devoted, caring, comforting, gentle, loving, tender, sympathetic, supporting, protective, indulgent

A penis is not required for a person to be protective and responsible. In fact, those traits are found in ALL mature people. Does being unprotective and irresponsible make someone feminine (Paris Hilton notwithstanding)? From what you mentioned of your father, he sounds like a caring, comforting, gentle, loving, tender, sympathetic man. Are you sure he wasn't your mother? To experience a full range of emotions is healthy for all people, regardless of gender.

I have no problem with looking in the mirror and knowing I'm a man; "claiming" seems so weak, so defensive, so effeminate, wouldn't you say?

Please tell me you're not one of those people who asks gay couples "Uh...so which one of you is the woman?" Unless they're lesbians, the answer is "neither".

One of the saddest people I've known was a gay man who tried very hard to act masculine. Often, he succeeded; he looked a lot like Burt Reynolds, and practiced keeping his voice in a lower register. But every now and then the facade would crack and suddenly he'd be FAAAAAB-ulous! And people would laugh, because it was funny.

"so, being yourself is rejecting who you are? just because something is comfortable does not mean it is natural. having a penis means your are male. embracing feminine qualities is to deny who you are."

bach, not only are you confused - now I'm confused, too!

you see my dilemma. also, your post makes it clear that my dad is motherly. good point. i'm motherly as well.

my point is that i remember "refusing" to behave in ways that society deems "manly". many of these "manly" traits would have been beneficial to me. as an adult, i'm attempting to take on responsibilities that i once thought i shouldn't have to deal with. i've never been a provider. i'm a freakin' homemaker. i don't mind laundry and dishes, but i need to survive and have a career. my dad is a worker bee. my mom is a great cook. my dad doesn't think about the bills or insurance or what's for dinner, my mom does all that. i'm the equivalent of my mom. i want to be more like my dad. i can't survive unless i take on my dad's work ethic. my talents are in the kitchen and around the house. what's funny is that if you met me, you'd never know these things. most of my friends and family think i have it all together. truth be told, i'd rather take care of everyone than earn a paycheck.

this dilemma taints my perception of straight vs. gay. i think if i were more manly (acting like i had a penis), i might be more of a money maker. i guess, when it comes down to it, i feel castrated because i excel at being more of a mom than a dad.

after writing all this, it's becoming clear to me that i like the fact i'm more of a mom than a dad. i'm good at it. my sister's kid (who i'm guardian of) benefits from it. maybe i've become jealous that i'm not like most guys.

i still think growing up gay is a series of consequences and decisions. it's too easy to think that it might be genetic. that would be too good to be true.

[HtownWxBoy]

i still think growing up gay is a series of consequences and decisions. it's too easy to think that it might be genetic. that would be too good to be true.

I know for a fact I was born gay. I have always been attracted to... and only attracted to... other guys. I had attractions to other boys growing up, like in middle school, before I even knew what sex or "gay" was... I thought these attractions were just a part of growing up. I have never had even the slightest attraction... emotionally or physically... to other girls. I wanted to be straight so bad growing up... but it was just not who I was meant to be. Now I am actually thankful I was born gay.

[musicman]

Maybe your uncle's should take him out some night and beat up some queers so he can be scared straight?

this comment is just as closed minded as the original tossing a football comment, if not worse.

[Trae]

Is he happy? You would think that would be the most important thing... but obviously it's not.

He has always been a happy little kid. I have another little cousin (girl), and they are exactly the same age (week apart). My mom is afraid (really just makes her sad), that he would be gay just like her close cousin (who was born a week apart from her). She use to think that they would have kids, and the kids would grow up playing together. Well, he cousin said he was gay when he was 20 (so twenty years ago), and now he has AIDS for messin around with other dudes. My uncle's don't want it to happen to him, but my Grandma just says "let the boy be".

I just don't know how you could pass up that ass in my avatar for a dude.

[HtownWxBoy]

this comment is just as closed minded as the original tossing a football comment, if not worse.

I could be wrong but I don't think he was being serious w/ that comment.

[HtownWxBoy]

He has always been a happy little kid. I have another little cousin (girl), and they are exactly the same age (week apart). My mom is afraid (really just makes her sad), that he would be gay just like her close cousin (who was born a week apart from her). She use to think that they would have kids, and the kids would grow up playing together. Well, he cousin said he was gay when he was 20 (so twenty years ago), and now he has AIDS for messin around with other dudes. My uncle's don't want it to happen to him, but my Grandma just says "let the boy be".

I just don't know how you could pass up that ass in my avatar for a dude.

Oh dear god you have got to be kidding me....

OK... first... just b/c you are gay does not mean you will get AIDS. I am 27, a gay male, and completely disease free. Second... straight people get HIV and AIDS, too... so even if he messes around w/ a bunch of chicks he can still get it. You get HIV and AIDS from having unprotected sex with someone... man or woman.. who has it. You don't get it from being born gay. Understand??

Next... you can easily "pass up that ass" if you are a guy who was born gay b/c you have absolutely no attraction to it. Duh! Just how straight guys are not attracted to other guys... gay men are not attracted to women. This is not that hard to understand.

[TheNiche]

I thank god I'm not a woman (I love women, BTW) because there is too much plumbing, estrogen and those heels look like a torture device-even though they're kinda hot...on someone else.

GAWDAMMIT! You just had to put that mental image in my head, didn't you!

[TheNiche]

Next... you can easily "pass up that ass" if you are a guy who was born gay b/c you have absolutely no attraction to it. Duh! Just how straight guys are not attracted to other guys... gay men are not attracted to women. This is not that hard to understand.

Oh, come on...even straight women know that they're the fairer sex. Aren't you in the least bit attracted, if only aesthetically, to the curves in Trae's avatar?

[musicman]

THAT was funny!! LOL

[HtownWxBoy]

Oh, come on...even straight women know that they're the fairer sex. Aren't you in the least bit attracted, if only aesthetically, to the curves in Trae's avatar?

Not even a tiny tiny tiny bit... sorry. Don't get me wrong, I know a pretty, sexy girl when I see one... I just have absolutely NO physical attraction to them... no sexual attraction.

[bachanon]

trae's avatar is HOT. sex has nothing to do with it.

[musicman]

I could be wrong but I don't think he was being serious w/ that comment.

you never know with nmain.

[bachanon]

I know for a fact I was born gay. I have always been attracted to... and only attracted to... other guys. I had attractions to other boys growing up, like in middle school, before I even knew what sex or "gay" was... I thought these attractions were just a part of growing up. I have never had even the slightest attraction... emotionally or physically... to other girls. I wanted to be straight so bad growing up... but it was just not who I was meant to be. Now I am actually thankful I was born gay.

how can you know "for a fact" that you were born gay? simply because your memories involve attraction to other guys does not mean that you were born gay. some of my earliest memories involve seeing demons in my bedroom. this does not mean that demons exist or that i can see into the spirit realm. i also believed that santa brought me gifts and ate the cookies i left, yet he does not exist. our perception of ourselves and the world around us is never completely true.

i too was never attracted to girls. i too always felt a comfort in the acceptance of other guys before i even knew what sex was. this does not mean i was born gay. this simply means that i had an emotional need that wasn't being fulfilled from the men in my childhood. add puberty to this equation and you have homosexual desire.

i've found that homosexuals need to comfort themselves by finding reasons that homosexuality is somehow unchangeable, genetic. truth is, sexuality is fluid. why is it that pedophiles become determined to prey on youngsters? were pedophiles born that way? i think not. if they were born that way, would it be a crime?

understand that i do not intend to belittle the struggle or trials of someone who has grown up gay. i understand the dilemma. however, i'm not one to take the easy way out. i cannot comfort myself with easy ideals that allow me to behave like there is no issue to be dealt with. what if? what if homosexuality is a condition of certain socio/sexual immaturities? i'm still not sure that my thinking on this issue is correct. however, i think that my questions are valid.

i'm aware of the un-PC nature of these statements. however, people once believed that the world was flat. it was un-PC to think of the world as round.

i'd give anything to find others who honestly attempt to tackle these questions. i'm exhausted at the regurgitation of christians (homosexuality is a sin) and the PC crowd (homosexuality is natural). it is neither. the truth is in the middle, somehow.

[nmainguy]

I could be wrong but I don't think he was being serious w/ that comment.

You're not wrong. It was pure sarcasm...something some people can't grasp.

[Trae]

I could not tell.

[HtownWxBoy]

how can you know "for a fact" that you were born gay? simply because your memories involve attraction to other guys does not mean that you were born gay. some of my earliest memories involve seeing demons in my bedroom. this does not mean that demons exist or that i can see into the spirit realm. i also believed that santa brought me gifts and ate the cookies i left, yet he does not exist. our perception of ourselves and the world around us is never completely true.

i too was never attracted to girls. i too always felt a comfort in the acceptance of other guys before i even knew what sex was. this does not mean i was born gay. this simply means that i had an emotional need that wasn't being fulfilled from the men in my childhood. add puberty to this equation and you have homosexual desire.

i've found that homosexuals need to comfort themselves by finding reasons that homosexuality is somehow unchangeable, genetic. truth is, sexuality is fluid. why is it that pedophiles become determined to prey on youngsters? were pedophiles born that way? i think not. if they were born that way, would it be a crime?

understand that i do not intend to belittle the struggle or trials of someone who has grown up gay. i understand the dilemma. however, i'm not one to take the easy way out. i cannot comfort myself with easy ideals that allow me to behave like there is no issue to be dealt with. what if? what if homosexuality is a condition of certain socio/sexual immaturities? i'm still not sure that my thinking on this issue is correct. however, i think that my questions are valid.

i'm aware of the un-PC nature of these statements. however, people once believed that the world was flat. it was un-PC to think of the world as round.

i'd give anything to find others who honestly attempt to tackle these questions. i'm exhausted at the regurgitation of christians (homosexuality is a sin) and the PC crowd (homosexuality is natural). it is neither. the truth is in the middle, somehow.

I can say for a fact that I was born gay b/c that's how I was born. It would take a long time for me to explain how I came to that conclusion... time I don't have right now. I am not speaking for every gay person out there... I am just saying that I know I was born gay. I was NEVER a choice I made. It took me to get to the point where I considered killing myself to finally accept how I was born... and now I wouldn't change it for anything.

[nmainguy]

He has always been a happy little kid. I have another little cousin (girl), and they are exactly the same age (week apart). My mom is afraid (really just makes her sad), that he would be gay just like her close cousin (who was born a week apart from her). She use to think that they would have kids, and the kids would grow up playing together. Well, he cousin said he was gay when he was 20 (so twenty years ago), and now he has AIDS for messin around with other dudes. My uncle's don't want it to happen to him, but my Grandma just says "let the boy be".

I just don't know how you could pass up that ass in my avatar for a dude.

Worldwide:

Over 22 million people have died from AIDS.

Over 42 million people are living with HIV/AIDS, and 74 percent of these infected people live in sub-Saharan Africa.

Over 19 million women are living with HIV/AIDS.

By the year 2010, five countries (Ethiopia, Nigeria, China, India, and Russia) with 40 percent of the world's population will add 50 to 75 million infected people to the worldwide pool of HIV disease.

There are 14,000 new infections every day (95 percent in developing countries). HIV/AIDS is a "disease of young people" with half of the 5.1 million new infections each year occurring among people ages 15 to 24.

The UN estimates that, currently, there are 14 million AIDS orphans and that by 2010 there will be 25 million.

Get your head out of your ass. Spreading stereotypes as you have only makes it worse for the women and children who need treatment. Man, could you be any more less informed?

[HtownWxBoy]

You're not wrong. It was pure sarcasm...something some people can't grasp.

Ok.. good... I thought that was pretty obvious.

[Trae]

Get your head out of your ass. Spreading stereotypes as you have only makes it worse for the women and children who need treatment. Man, could you be any more less informed?

All I said was that he has AIDS. I didn't give out any statistics or anything like that, so don't put ____in words in my mouth.

[HtownWxBoy]

All I said was that he has AIDS. I didn't give out any statistics or anything like that, so don't put ____in words in my mouth.

[bachanon]

I can say for a fact that I was born gay b/c that's how I was born. It would take a long time for me to explain how I came to that conclusion... time I don't have right now. I am not speaking for every gay person out there... I am just saying that I know I was born gay. I was NEVER a choice I made. It took me to get to the point where I considered killing myself to finally accept how I was born... and now I wouldn't change it for anything.

i quit wanting to kill myself when i realized that homosexual feelings were not about sin. you cannot know that you were born gay. it may be easy for you to make that conclusion. it might bring peace to you to think that it isn't about your circumstances. i think it is imperative that we consider the idea that it might be about us. it might be about who we perceive ourselves to be.

to not consider this is to embrace ignorance for our own personal comfort.

[TheNiche]

Get your head out of your ass. Spreading stereotypes as you have only makes it worse for the women and children who need treatment. Man, could you be any more less informed?

Dude, you need get your head(s) out of your partner's ass and educate yourself! <---Lesson 1, this is called a personal insult (a.k.a. ad hominem). It is not effective at communicating knowledge or at making a point. It is also not kosher with HAIF guidelines.

Lesson 2, a UN report is irrelevant to you, Trae, his cousin, or anyone else here on this board.

--->Lesson 3<---

Of new reported HIV/AIDS diagnoses, at least 35.8% are men who have sex with men (although 28.5% of cases don't have an attributed cause of transmission, so you would expect that figure to be at least somewhat higher, then higher still among men who have sex with men because there'd be a perceived stigma associated with being labeled gay). Seeing as how only about half of the population is male, I'd find it hard to believe that that at least 71.6% of all males in the Houston area are having sex with other males, which is the amount that would be necessary in order for there not to be any differences between the gay/straight rate of transmission.

Of 210 HIV+ gay men in the Houston area, only 35% always use condoms with casual partners. I don't pretend to know whether being gay is a choice and even if it is, I respect yours. I do however have a problem with dumbasses that are a danger to society, and evidently 65% of HIV+ gay men fit that description.

Consider these two tidbits of data (free of contamination from the Sub-Saharan Africa population ), and that Trae's cousin is presumably a black male (correct me if I'm wrong, Trae). About 71% of new HIV/AIDS diagnoses are of males. About 55.7% of new HIV/AIDS diagnoses are of blacks even though they comprise a smaller population than other ethnic/racial categories; their risk of contraction adjusted for the population size is 7.3 times that of whites! So if Trae's cousin is a black male and is possibly homosexual, he is in the most extreme risk category of any demographic group. Granted, Trae's cousin isn't living in Houston, but I'd suspect that Louisiana is probably right up there on the risk profile...

If Trae or his family is concerned for their relative, isn't that a good thing? Now, I'd advise Trae to take these statistics to his cousin when his cousin is old enough (if this issue remains a concern, and I'm not sure that it will be) and explain the prevalence of HIV and the importance of condom use. It'll be an akward conversation, but hey--that's the burden of being a good-natured person.

[TheNiche]

to not consider this is to embrace ignorance for our own personal comfort.

Bach, thank you for bringing a sober and well-thought out perspective to this discussion. I do not claim to know whether it is 'nature' or 'nurture', but it is good that someone can be open-minded about things and at least ask smart questions instead of just being defensive/bigoted.

[musicman]

Spreading stereotypes as you have only makes it worse for the women and children who need treatment. Man, could you be any more less informed?

what about the men who need treatment? doesn't it make it worse for them too?

[Trae]

Dude, you need get your head out of your partner's ass and educate yourself! <---Lesson 1, this is called a personal insult (a.k.a. ad hominem). It is not effective at communicating knowledge or at making a point. It is also not kosher with HAIF guidelines.

Lesson 2, a UN report is irrelevant to you, Trae, his cousin, or anyone else here on this board.

--->Lesson 3<---

Of new reported HIV/AIDs diagnoses, at least 35.8% are men who have sex with men (although 28.5% of cases don't have an attributed cause of transmission, so you would expect that figure to be at least somewhat higher, then higher still among men who have sex with men because there'd be a perceived stigma associated with being labeled gay). Seeing as how only about half of the population is male, I'd find it hard to believe that that at least 71.6% of all males in the Houston area are having sex with other males, which is the amount that would be necessary in order for there not to be any differences between the gay/straight rate of transmission.

Of 210 HIV+ gay men in the Houston area, only 35% always use condoms with casual partners. I don't pretend to know whether being gay is a choice and even if it is, I respect yours. I do however have a problem with dumbasses that are a danger to society, and evidently 65% of HIV+ gay men fit that description.

Consider these two tidbits of data (free of contamination from the Sub-Saharan Africa population ), and that Trae's cousin is presumably a black male (correct me if I'm wrong, Trae). About 71% of new HIV/AIDs diagnoses are of males. About 55.7% of new HIV/AIDs diagnoses are of blacks even though they comprise a smaller population than other ethnic/racial categories; their risk of contraction adjusted for the population size is 7.3 times that of whites! So if Trae's cousin is a black male and is possibly homosexual, he is in the most extreme risk category of any demographic group. Granted, Trae's cousin isn't living in Houston, but I'd suspect that Louisiana is probably right up there on the risk profile...

If Trae or his family is concerned for their relative, isn't that a good thing? Now, I'd advise Trae to take these statistics to his cousin when his cousin is old enough (if this issue remains a concern, and I'm not sure that it will be) and explain the prevalence of HIV and the importance of condom use. It'll be an akward conversation, but hey--that's the burden of being a good-natured person.

Yes my cousin is black. The one with AIDS is black, as well. I am going to go ahead and save this post.

[nmainguy]

what about the men who need treatment? doesn't it make it worse for them too?

Oh, absolutly! I tend to concentrate on women and especially children worldwide but that doesn't mean I discount the needs of men worldwide.

[dbigtex56]

you see my dilemma. also, your post makes it clear that my dad is motherly. good point. i'm motherly as well.

my point is that i remember "refusing" to behave in ways that society deems "manly". many of these "manly" traits would have been beneficial to me. as an adult, i'm attempting to take on responsibilities that i once thought i shouldn't have to deal with. i've never been a provider. i'm a freakin' homemaker. i don't mind laundry and dishes, but i need to survive and have a career. my dad is a worker bee. my mom is a great cook. my dad doesn't think about the bills or insurance or what's for dinner, my mom does all that. i'm the equivalent of my mom. i want to be more like my dad. i can't survive unless i take on my dad's work ethic. my talents are in the kitchen and around the house. what's funny is that if you met me, you'd never know these things. most of my friends and family think i have it all together. truth be told, i'd rather take care of everyone than earn a paycheck.

this dilemma taints my perception of straight vs. gay. i think if i were more manly (acting like i had a penis), i might be more of a money maker. i guess, when it comes down to it, i feel castrated because i excel at being more of a mom than a dad.

after writing all this, it's becoming clear to me that i like the fact i'm more of a mom than a dad. i'm good at it. my sister's kid (who i'm guardian of) benefits from it. maybe i've become jealous that i'm not like most guys.

i still think growing up gay is a series of consequences and decisions. it's too easy to think that it might be genetic. that would be too good to be true.

What a great post! and how commendable that you're honest with yourself, and with others.

Some of the points you make have to do with gender roles in our society, which have undergone tremendous changes in the past few decades. I remember in the late 60's, when my sister was job hunting, that the employment section in the daily paper was divided by gender. There was a column "Help Wanted - Male" and another "Help Wanted - Female". Grudgingly, in the early 70's another category was briefly added "Help Wanted - Male or Female" before the gender classifications were scrapped entirely. Now it seems as ridiculous as separating drinking fountains by race.

Gender roles within families have evolved more slowly. Forty years ago it wasn't uncommon for men to proclaim "No wife of mine is going to have a job!" It was considered to be an affront to ones masculinity. Now it's the norm for both parents to have jobs outside of the home (which is unfortunate, IMO.) The idea of the woman being the sole source of income while the man attends to domestic life is still considered to be kind of amusing, sort of contemptible, and somehow unnatural - attitudes remarkably similar to those expressed towards gay people. Obviously, those are attitudes I do not share. The structure of ones home life is no reflection on masculinity, femininity or sexual preference. If one is otherwise uncomfortable with his or her gender, he or she may have transsexual issues.

Sexual orientation is, as the name implies, sexual. Is it right to enter into a relationship or marriage if one is not sexually attracted to his or her partner? Is it fair to the other person? Many men and women have had their hearts broken because their partners thought they could fake their way through a marriage - and couldn't. In some marriages people remain heterosexually monogamous, with the understanding that a partner is allowed same-gender sexual fulfillment outside of the marriage. These are matters to be worked out by consenting adults without anyone else's interference (IMO).

This above all: to thine own self be true,

And it must follow, as the night the day,

Thou canst not then be false to any man.

- William Shakespeare

[nmainguy]

Dude, you need get your head(s) out of your partner's ass and educate yourself! <---Lesson 1, this is called a personal insult (a.k.a. ad hominem). It is not effective at communicating knowledge or at making a point. It is also not kosher with HAIF guidelines.

So report me. If the editor deems my post more repulsive than your advocacy of leaving illegals to die on the sidewalk as a detriment to future illegals then I will proudly wear it as a badge of honor.

Lesson 2, a UN report is irrelevant to you, Trae, his cousin, or anyone else here on this board.

The UN report is relevant to us all. Do you not think the last or next person you had intercourse with hasn't been infected with HIV?

Are you sure the last person you had intercourse with hasen't had sex with someone with HIV? Perhaps that person came from Africa, Europe, China, Eurasia or Hooterville?

I'm talking about worldwide HIV infections...not the local RYPC stats. You choose to concentrate on a narrow segment to advance a narrow view of a worldwide issue. It's time for all of us to wake up and stop the spread of HIV. It's a tough fight but not near as tough and nasty as sitting by the bed of a loved one waiting to die a horrible death.

[dbigtex56]

Oh, come on...even straight women know that they're the fairer sex. Aren't you in the least bit attracted, if only aesthetically, to the curves in Trae's avatar?

I concede no such thing. Look at nature's creations - usually, the male is the larger, more brightly colored, more attractive of a species. The lion has its mane, the peacock its tail, the deer its antlers.

In order to maintain peace, I'll concede that in the case of humans that the female may be equally attractive as the male. To some.

[bachanon]

What a great post! and how commendable that you're honest with yourself, and with others.

Some of the points you make have to do with gender roles in our society, which have undergone tremendous changes in the past few decades. I remember in the late 60's, when my sister was job hunting, that the employment section in the daily paper was divided by gender. There was a column "Help Wanted - Male" and another "Help Wanted - Female". Grudgingly, in the early 70's another category was briefly added "Help Wanted - Male or Female" before the gender classifications were scrapped entirely. Now it seems as ridiculous as separating drinking fountains by race.

Gender roles within families have evolved more slowly. Forty years ago it wasn't uncommon for men to proclaim "No wife of mine is going to have a job!" It was considered to be an affront to ones masculinity. Now it's the norm for both parents to have jobs outside of the home (which is unfortunate, IMO.) The idea of the woman being the sole source of income while the man attends to domestic life is still considered to be kind of amusing, sort of contemptible, and somehow unnatural - attitudes remarkably similar to those expressed towards gay people. Obviously, those are attitudes I do not share. The structure of ones home life is no reflection on masculinity, femininity or sexual preference. If one is otherwise uncomfortable with his or her gender, he or she may have transsexual issues.

Sexual orientation is, as the name implies, sexual. Is it right to enter into a relationship or marriage if one is not sexually attracted to his or her partner? Is it fair to the other person? Many men and women have had their hearts broken because their partners thought they could fake their way through a marriage - and couldn't. In some marriages people remain heterosexually monogamous, with the understanding that a partner is allowed same-gender sexual fulfillment outside of the marriage. These are matters to be worked out by consenting adults without anyone else's interference (IMO).

This above all: to thine own self be true,

And it must follow, as the night the day,

Thou canst not then be false to any man.

- William Shakespeare

my dad can't understand why it takes me longer than him to get ready for work. i have to confirm doctor's appointments. i have to put clothes in the dryer. i have to write a note for my nephew's teacher(s). i have to write a check to the insurance company. all he has to do is put his clothes on and get out the door. he's lost without my mom. what scares me..............if my mom dies before him.......he's lost without me. "to thine own self be true........" i'm not a genius. i'm not a bread winner. i'm a freakin comforter..........a soothsayer, a rainmaker. i'm someone else's better half.

post hoc ergo proptor hoc.