Moose Posted July 30, 2007 Share Posted July 30, 2007 Thanks for posting the newspaper article. The city directory lists the building as vacant in 1962 and 1963, but this article (which also talks about the building have been vacant for a short time) seems to establish that the city directory was just not timely updated. That's helpful information.You may want to also look into the history of an ice house called The Shady Tavern at 1206 W. 20th Street, 77008. The area is called Shady Acres and is just west of the Heights. The building is very old and there is an old kick-drum looking lamp inside that says "The Shady Tavern Blues Band W. 20th St. Est. 1936." This date would roughly correspond with the original Shady Acres development dates in the late 1920's. It may also make sense that with the Heights proper being dry the neighboring areas sprouted bars to support a demand. My understanding is that it originated as a bar, was converted into a service station at some point and then eventually returned to a bar. Regardless, it is a great place to drink a cold beer on a hot Texas day. It may look rough from the outside, but the atmosphere and patrons are great. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tmariar Posted October 4, 2007 Author Share Posted October 4, 2007 I haven't gotten to get back to my research on this recently, but I'll add Shady Tavern to the list - I've been there a few times, but am not sure whether I have looked for it in the city directories yet.Here's a blog entry Cathy Matusow at the Press posted today on the subject:http://blogs.houstonpress.com/houstoned/20...ouston_no_r.php Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
northbeaumont Posted October 9, 2007 Share Posted October 9, 2007 as far as i know la carafe isn't the oldest bar and never claimed to be. i think even warren's is older. it is the oldest buidling with a continually operating business in it. i'm not sure your internet "research" is accurate. searching a blog to find factual info? even if you just read the items you posted, you can tell there are so many conflicts between each.The hero of The Battle of Sabine Pass in 1863, Lieutenant Dick Dowling, was a Houston saloon-keeper. His bar might have been the oldest or one of the oldest in Houston. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tmariar Posted October 9, 2007 Author Share Posted October 9, 2007 The hero of The Battle of Sabine Pass in 1863, Lieutenant Dick Dowling, was a Houston saloon-keeper. His bar might have been the oldest or one of the oldest in Houston."Oldest" as in "first" bar in Houston? Could be... Early Houston was apparently a pretty bar-friendly place."In 1854, free public education, as provided by state law, came to Houston. The following year city ordinances instituted 'blue laws' that closed bars, billiard parlors and bowling alleys on Sundays. Saloons however, still outnumbered churches." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jwphillips2 Posted October 11, 2007 Share Posted October 11, 2007 "Oldest" as in "first" bar in Houston? Could be... Early Houston was apparently a pretty bar-friendly place.According to an interview with one of the Kennedy grandchildren, Bebe Kennedy, John F. Kennedy opened a trading post @ Allen's Landing around 1835. While not a part of the Galveston brotherhood of Michel B. Menard, Mays, and all 7 of the Allens, he was active all over the new Republic. Kennedy opened a bakery as an add-on to the original trading post. A few years after the Texas Revolution (early 1840s), he built a two story building which is the modern La Carafe. Kennedy later built several buildings in the new Republic's Capitol (Houston), the Clay Hotel and a few others. He also built a house at Morgan's Point and moved it by 20 mule team to its currrent location on Upper Bay Road in Laporte right after the 1900 hurricane. "The Bay Home" was situated down the street from Hoffeinz's Jester House and Governor Shivers Mansion. I used to walk off the back porch and step on the Clay Hotel stone address marker. It may still be there.As far as a "bar" at the La Carafe location, I know that Kennedy sold and traded for whiskey and other consumables at that location before the two-story was erected. While I'm on the subject of Kennedy, I donated a portrait of John Kennedy and his wife to the Houston Historical Society with the caveat that I would be told where they were going to hang it in 1979. That is the last I saw it and no one can tell me where it is. I want it back! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sak Posted October 13, 2007 Share Posted October 13, 2007 .... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tmariar Posted May 22, 2008 Author Share Posted May 22, 2008 The hero of The Battle of Sabine Pass in 1863, Lieutenant Dick Dowling, was a Houston saloon-keeper. His bar might have been the oldest or one of the oldest in Houston.It wasn't the focus of this dormant thread (dormant in part because I've been lazy with my research), but I think I have a contender for the first "bar" in Houston. In 1885, the Galveston paper wrote: "Colonel Lem G. Clepper, a planter from Grimes county, is in the city. Colonel Clepper first came to Houston when there was but one house, and that a tent, known as Kessler's Round Tent, where whisky was sold."An even earlier - 1884 - article states: "Houston has not been much in tents since the days of the republic, when the famous Round Tent was the rendezvous for the founders of the government." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Too tall Posted June 1, 2015 Share Posted June 1, 2015 - The Warren's trail does seem to end somewhere in the 1978-80 time period, consistent with musicman's [edit: and isuredid's] comments above.- Also, I didn't find a Rudyard's listing of any kind in 1979-80 (about as late back as I looked this time - so don't know yet about earlier listings), but did find that "Rudyard's British Bar" appeared to have been located in the Kipling Pub/Velvet Elvis (now "Vintage") building (2108 Kipling) in the 1981-82 time period. The 2108 Kipling building is listed as vacant in 1980.Rudyard's British Pub opened at 2108 Kipling in 1979. During that period a lot of people from England were moving to Houston for work. The economy in Britain was very bad at the time. I believe it stayed at that location until around 1982 when it moved, temporarily, over to West Alabama while it searched for a new home. I want to say it was where T.K. Bittermans is now. I believe it was 1983 when they finally relocated to the current building on Waugh, which had previously been The High Noon Saloon - a gay bar.- The Warren's trail does seem to end somewhere in the 1978-80 time period, consistent with musicman's [edit: and isuredid's] comments above.- Also, I didn't find a Rudyard's listing of any kind in 1979-80 (about as late back as I looked this time - so don't know yet about earlier listings), but did find that "Rudyard's British Bar" appeared to have been located in the Kipling Pub/Velvet Elvis (now "Vintage") building (2108 Kipling) in the 1981-82 time period. The 2108 Kipling building is listed as vacant in 1980.Rudyard's British Pub opened at 2108 Kipling in 1979. During that period a lot of people from England were moving to Houston for work. The economy in Britain was very bad at the time. I believe it stayed at that location until around 1982 when it moved, temporarily, over to West Alabama while it searched for a new home. I want to say it was where T.K. Bittermans is now. I believe it was 1983 when they finally relocated to the current building on Waugh, which had previously been The High Noon Saloon - a gay bar. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Too tall Posted June 1, 2015 Share Posted June 1, 2015 - The Warren's trail does seem to end somewhere in the 1978-80 time period, consistent with musicman's [edit: and isuredid's] comments above.- Also, I didn't find a Rudyard's listing of any kind in 1979-80 (about as late back as I looked this time - so don't know yet about earlier listings), but did find that "Rudyard's British Bar" appeared to have been located in the Kipling Pub/Velvet Elvis (now "Vintage") building (2108 Kipling) in the 1981-82 time period. The 2108 Kipling building is listed as vacant in 1980.Rudyard's British Pub opened at 2108 Kipling in 1979. During that period a lot of people from England were moving to Houston for work. The economy in Britain was very bad at the time. I believe it stayed at that location until around 1982 when it moved, temporarily, over to West Alabama while it searched for a new home. I want to say it was where T.K. Bittermans is now. I believe it was 1983 when they finally relocated to the current building on Waugh, which had previously been The High Noon Saloon - a gay bar. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Too tall Posted June 1, 2015 Share Posted June 1, 2015 The High Noon Saloon was never a gay bar. I was one of the first bartenders. The first owner was Paul Smith. He also created Zithers Pub on Waugh drive south of The High Noon a couple blocks. The High Noon was a neighborhood bar with a mix of local blue collar construction workers, musicians, hippies, etc. Paul Smith sold the bar to Cyril LaGroue who involved it in the weekend local Live music scene featuring the likes of Lightin Hopkins and Gatemouth Brown, as did Anderson Fair. Cyril LaGroue took on two silent partners. The bar also had a biker customer base for a while before the punk rock era took over. Soon after it was sold and became Rudyard's which it currently is today. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tumbleweed_Tx Posted June 1, 2015 Share Posted June 1, 2015 http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richard_W._Dowling Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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