Oldest Bar In Houston

[dbigtex56]

this was my first visit to the Municipal Research Center

I'm not familiar with that institution - where is it located?

[tmariar]

I'm not familiar with that institution - where is it located?

Possibly because I got the name wrong... I meant the Houston Metropolitan Research Center. I often saw it referenced in TARO search results.

Looked like the only thing on the second floor of the Ideson building open to the public. (Seeing the inside of that building is alone worth the trip.) Most of the city directories are on the shelf (looked like some were on microfilm or microfiche), organized by year. They contain alphabetic listings of businesses/people - plus, the ones I looked at had listings by street name and address.

[brucesw]

I'm impressed by your research. I know today we associate ice houses with open air beer joints, but was that always the case? It seems reasonable that they were just grocers that at some point got a liquor license.

Ditto, and your website also, which I just recently discovered. I wanted to thank you for the write-up on Original New Orleans Po Boys and the link to the other article - I knew that building had to have been there longer than ONOPB but couldn't remember what it was.

The discussion of beer joints and ice houses reminded me of this I picked up on one of the GHPA tours:

The tour guide said something about how the Magnolia Brewery managed to survive Prohibition because it was also a huge ice factory.

I know the brewery spanned the bayou and some was destroyed in the 1935 flood, but I wonder how much of this was ever built?

[tmariar]

The tour guide said something about how the Magnolia Brewery managed to survive Prohibition because it was also a huge ice factory.

I know the brewery spanned the bayou and some was destroyed in the 1935 flood, but I wonder how much of this was ever built?

Thanks for posting that picture - I had seen it before, but then couldn't find a copy when I needed it. I think there may also be a colorized postcard with a similar view - couldn't find that, either. What I've seen about the Houston Ice and Brewing Company is here, and in the links cited. I'm also interested in the extent to which the brewery built over the bayou... but haven't discovered much detailed information. I've looked for photos, without success - though I need to look back again at some of the early panoramic photos on the Library of Congress site. I had always understood that the drawings similar to the one you posted were not accurate depictions of what building was ultimately done - though I can't cite a source for that off the top of my head - and so I always wondered if written reports that there were buildings out over the bayou were incorrect and based only on the drawing. I do recall reading that the structures the brewery built into the bayou were blamed, at least in part, for the damage caused by the 1935 flood. Would love to find out more.

I've also read that, while the brewery survived Prohibition, because of the ice works, Prohibition was still the beginning of the end...

As for the bars research, I went through some of the City Directories in more detail today - it's time-consuming. I'll have to write up what I found tonight, and will link to the updated research later. Some quick highlights of what I think I found out today (and last night, talking to the bartender at Kay's):

- The Warren's trail does seem to end somewhere in the 1978-80 time period, consistent with musicman's [edit: and isuredid's] comments above.

- Also, I didn't find a Rudyard's listing of any kind in 1979-80 (about as late back as I looked this time - so don't know yet about earlier listings), but did find that "Rudyard's British Bar" appeared to have been located in the Kipling Pub/Velvet Elvis (now "Vintage") building (2108 Kipling) in the 1981-82 time period. The 2108 Kipling building is listed as vacant in 1980.

- I had wondered if there was a connection between Marquis II and a bar called the Marquis Lounge that I saw listed on W. Gray in earlier years. The bartender at Kay's mentioned the West Gray Marquis as the first Marquis without my asking about it, so there may be a connection. The dates seem to work out so far.

[mkultra25]

- Also, I didn't find a Rudyard's listing of any kind in 1979-80 (about as late back as I looked this time - so don't know yet about earlier listings), but did find that "Rudyard's British Bar" appeared to have been located in the Kipling Pub/Velvet Elvis (now "Vintage") building (2108 Kipling) in the 1981-82 time period. The 2108 Kipling building is listed as vacant in 1980.

Hmm. I believe I first visited Rudz when I was 16, which would've been in 1980-81. It was in its current location on Waugh then. Never made it to the earlier location on Kipling.

[tmariar]

Hmm. I believe I first visited Rudz when I was 16, which would've been in 1980-81. It was in its current location on Waugh then. Never made it to the earlier location on Kipling.

I think your recollection meshes with what I've found so far. The TABC online records only go back to 1984. While the 1981 Houston City Directory only shows Rudyard's British Bar, at the Kipling location, the 1982 Houston City Directory lists both Rudyard's British Pub at the Waugh location and Rudyard's British Bar at the Kipling location. So perhaps the Waugh location opened in 1981, after the directory was published?

Interesting that you got in at 16. I'd heard that Rudyard's had (at least for a while, don't know about now) such a strict no-minors policy that underage band members couldn't come in until the band was just about to go on. That kept me from trying to see some shows I really wanted to see, back in the day. Were you there to see a band? Do you remember who it was?

I've added to my online notes the info I found today. The updates concern city directory listings from 1978 to 1986, and the following bars/locations: Chez Lounge, Etta's Lounge, Jimmie's Place, Kay's Lounge, La Carafe, Leon's Lounge, Marquis II, Mary's Lounge, Noe's Drive-In, Roll-N-Saloon, Roseland Lounge, Rudyard's, Turning Point Lounge, Warren's, West Alabama Ice House, 3743 Greenbriar (once River Oaks Bar), 5607 Morningside (now Gingerman).

[Subdude]

Thanks for posting that picture - I had seen it before, but then couldn't find a copy when I needed it. I think there may also be a colorized postcard with a similar view - couldn't find that, either. What I've seen about the Houston Ice and Brewing Company is here, and in the links cited. I'm also interested in the extent to which the brewery built over the bayou... but haven't discovered much detailed information. I've looked for photos, without success - though I need to look back again at some of the early panoramic photos on the Library of Congress site. I had always understood that the drawings similar to the one you posted were not accurate depictions of what building was ultimately done - though I can't cite a source for that off the top of my head - and so I always wondered if written reports that there were buildings out over the bayou were incorrect and based only on the drawing. I do recall reading that the structures the brewery built into the bayou were blamed, at least in part, for the damage caused by the 1935 flood. Would love to find out more.

I've also read that, while the brewery survived Prohibition, because of the ice works, Prohibition was still the beginning of the end...

As for the bars research, I went through some of the City Directories in more detail today - it's time-consuming. I'll have to write up what I found tonight, and will link to the updated research later. Some quick highlights of what I think I found out today (and last night, talking to the bartender at Kay's):

- The Warren's trail does seem to end somewhere in the 1978-80 time period, consistent with musicman's comments above.

- Also, I didn't find a Rudyard's listing of any kind in 1979-80 (about as late back as I looked this time - so don't know yet about earlier listings), but did find that "Rudyard's British Bar" appeared to have been located in the Kipling Pub/Velvet Elvis (now "Vintage") building (2108 Kipling) in the 1981-82 time period. The 2108 Kipling building is listed as vacant in 1980.

- I had wondered if there was a connection between Marquis II and a bar called the Marquis Lounge that I saw listed on W. Gray in earlier years. The bartender at Kay's mentioned the West Gray Marquis as the first Marquis without my asking about it, so there may be a connection. The dates seem to work out so far.

I have heard that the Marquis II was indeed the child of Marquis I.

Marquis at 1957 West Gray

I think I have a picture of the Magnolia Brewery complex that I will post when I can get access to it.

[dbigtex56]

I have heard that the Marquis II was indeed the child of Marquis I.

Marquis at 1957 West Gray

What an amazing room! Toulouse-Lautrec , Marie Antoinette, "Happy Days", Colonial Williamsburg and the Playboy Mansion have never been so forcefully joined before - or since, one hopes.

I suppose the decor started making sense after the third martini....

[musicman]

What an amazing room! Toulouse-Lautrec , Marie Antoinette, "Happy Days", Colonial Williamsburg and the Playboy Mansion have never been so forcefully joined before - or since, one hopes.

i like the decor. too bad we don't have as many left. just way more interesting. i can still appreciate a GOOD jukebox!

[tmariar]

Fantastic photo, Subdude! That photo just can't be circa 1980 - so I bet I find the Marquis goes a ways back in time... I wonder if Marquis II still has any of what's pictured (I'm pretty sure the Honeybaked Ham Company, or whatever else is at 1957 W. Grey these days, does not)... The only design elements that come to mind when I think of Marquis II are the piano and bathroom-stall shower curtains (if you're lucky), though it's been a while. Curious, too, about the early-80's "Bunnie Show Lounge" detour between Marquis and Marquis II, which is reflected in the city directory, for the Bissonnet location, but not in the TABC records.

So many bars, so many questions. Forgot to mention a couple of other recent research finding - Leon's re-opened this past weekend under new ownership, but looks the same; and Kay's now serves hard alcohol.

[Subdude]

It might have been on the old HAIF, but there was a rendering of plan for the Marquis II building in its original incarnation as a donut shop. On the roof there was a gigantic rubber donut. Seriously. I don't know if the donut was ever actually added however. Last I was at the Marquis II the decor was scary 1970s furniture and dark gray walls.

[tmariar]

It might have been on the old HAIF, but there was a rendering of plan for the Marquis II building in its original incarnation as a donut shop. On the roof there was a gigantic rubber donut. Seriously. I don't know if the donut was ever actually added however.

The city directory for 1958 lists for 2631 Bissonnet (the Marquis II location): "The Big Donut Inc." Don't know for sure if it was connected but, in the 1950's, there was a chain of drive-through donut shops that were called "Big Donut Drive-In". The Los Angeles location looked like this:

I think it's still there (in L.A.) - but called Randy's Donuts now. There were apparently about 9 other Big Donut Drive-Ins in the 1950's, but I don't know whether there was ever one in Houston. Maybe "The Big Donut Inc." was a copycat company.

I finally got back to the library to do a little more research - though I jumped around a bit because a lot of the city directories were off the shelf. I'll post when I've updated my notes.

[tmariar]

The research is still incomplete, but I've created individual pages containing easier-to-read updated histories for each of the below. (I'm going to try to take and add some photos this weekend.) These are all what I'd consider historic bars (by Houston standards), but Jimmie's, Kay's, Leon's, Marquis II, and the West Alabama Ice House appear to have the longest histories so far as recognizable institutions. Thanks again for all the input!

Fitzgerald's - The building was built in 1918, and served as a Polish dance hall until 1974. Fitzgerald's opened in 1977.

Golden Eagle Ice House - Built in 1940, the building appears to have been an ice house since at least 1958. It

[tmariar]

I added some photos - mainly of the lesser-known bars - to the pages. Here are a few of them:

Sorry - no interior shots - I was by myself. I was asked twice if I was lost.

[isuredid]

- The Warren's trail does seem to end somewhere in the 1978-80 time period, consistent with musicman's [edit: and isuredid's] comments above.

- Also, I didn't find a Rudyard's listing of any kind in 1979-80 (about as late back as I looked this time - so don't know yet about earlier listings), but did find that "Rudyard's British Bar" appeared to have been located in the Kipling Pub/Velvet Elvis (now "Vintage") building (2108 Kipling) in the 1981-82 time period. The 2108 Kipling building is listed as vacant in 1980.

Rudyard's British Pub opened at 2108 Kipling in 1979. During that period a lot of people from England were moving to Houston for work. The economy in Britain was very bad at the time. I believe it stayed at that location until around 1982 when it moved, temporarily, over to West Alabama while it searched for a new home. I want to say it was where T.K. Bittermans is now. I believe it was 1983 when they finally relocated to the current building on Waugh, which had previously been The High Noon Saloon - a gay bar.

[Subdude]

Those places look like some serious bars. Where are they located?

Here's the Spark Plug Club from the 1960s.

[musicman]

Those places look like some serious bars. Where are they located?

Here's the Spark Plug Club from the 1960s.

looks like a bar for the 7 dwarfs.

- The Warren's trail does seem to end somewhere in the 1978-80 time period, consistent with musicman's [edit: and isuredid's] comments above.

12/78 from amada and faye who've both worked there more than 25 yrs.

[icanluv2]

I added some photos - mainly of the lesser-known bars - to the pages. Here are a few of them:

Sorry - no interior shots - I was by myself. I was asked twice if I was lost.

Whoa. These bars look like the ones you hear on the news about patrons getting shot and killed.

Isn't the Marquis a white building heading east on Bissonett towards Kirby?

[tmariar]

Those places look like some serious bars. Where are they located?

The exact street addresses, and some more photos, are in the links up in post 43. Generally speaking, though:

The Silver Slipper is in Frenchtown, a part of the Fifth Ward that is just east of 59, and south of 610 North. It's one of the few remaining vestiges of creole culture there. They feature zydeco bands pretty regularly. It's right in the middle of a residential neighborhood.

The others are indeed the kind of bars that generally come up in internet searches only because someone got shot in the parking lot.

Harbor Lights Night Club and the Golden Eagle Ice House are both on McCarty, just north of the turning basin, off Clinton. McCarty is a pretty wide street, and somewhat industrial. There are a lot of trucking facilities in the area. I saw an old-style tourist-court motel on McCarty that I wish I'd been able to photograph. It's just east of Denver Harbor, so that area may be considered the Fifth Ward as well - I don't know for sure. It's plainly defined, at least down where these bars are, by its proximity to the turning basin.

The Roseland Club and Sandy's Lounge are both on Telephone Road, just south of 610 South. That part of Telephone Road is just packed with businesses. I saw a little bakery nearby, advertising kolaches, that looked like it had been hanging on there even longer than these bars. The map makes it look like there is a small traffic circle nearby, but I forgot to check it out.

And then the Hollywood Inn is in Sunnyside (east of Scott, south of 610 South), in the middle of a little residential neighborhood.

There aren't that many bars in town that have had a single continuous TABC license since the 60's/70's, and these bars were among them - that's why I included them in my list. I already knew the Silver Slipper - I haven't been there, but know someone who has. The others don't seem to have any special historical significance apart from their licenses - and don't look much different from most of the other bars in the same neighborhoods, which could have been just as old, but perhaps changed names or owners over time. Still, the fact that they've been run for decades by the same person makes me think that they would be interesting places to visit. With a couple of friends. In the afternoon.

Here's the Spark Plug Club from the 1960s.

Again, great photos, Subdude. I saw you listed the club as "extant" in another thread - does that mean the club is still around, or just the structure? The photos and the address (1142 Adele) make me curious about where it would have been - the neighborhood looks very residential from the bird's-eye satellite view, and the bar looks like it could have been a converted attic.

Isn't the Marquis a white building heading east on Bissonett towards Kirby?

You know, I don't really remember the color - I've always been at night. It's a bit inconspicuous in the daytime - but, yeah, it's just a few spots down Bissonnet, off what I'd call the southwest corner of Kirby and Bissonnet.

[Subdude]

Again, great photos, Subdude. I saw you listed the club as "extant" in another thread - does that mean the club is still around, or just the structure? The photos and the address (1142 Adele) make me curious about where it would have been - the neighborhood looks very residential from the bird's-eye satellite view, and the bar looks like it could have been a converted attic.

The building is there, but it has had structural damage and the club is closed. It is a mainly quiet residential neighborhood with some businesses around. When I was there I met a man who knew the owner of the club and he spent half an hour telling anecdotes about the place. Quite interesting.

[tmariar]

I've updated the information in the links (see post 43) for Kay's, Leon's, Marquis II, and the West Alabama Ice House, as these seemed to be the most promising candidates of that group. The key facts appear to be as follows:

Kay's - The building in which Kay's is located was built in approximately 1944. A series of Kay's restaurants operated in the space thereafter: Kay's Barbeque, Kay's Club Grill, and Kay's Grill. Even "Kay's Lounge", which first makes its first appearance in city directories between 1959 and 1962, is listed for a time as a restaurant. [Photos of Kay's here and here, ]

Leon's - The building in which Leon's is located was built in the 1940's. An earlier bar - La Bamba or La Bomba - was there for a few years, and first appears in the city directory in 1949. Leon Yarborough bought the building in the early 1950's, and "Leon's Bar" premiered no later than 1955. The building has been a bar, named some version of "Leon's", ever since. [Photos of Leon's here, here, and here]

Marquis - The part of the River Oaks Shopping Center in which the original Marquis was located was built in the 1940's. By 1949, the city directory listed the "Marquis Cocktail Lounge" at 1957 W. Gray (the bar was later called just "Marquis Lounge"). At some point around 1980, the bar moved to 2631 Bissonnet. It may or may not have been called Marquis II at first - though there is a TABC license for Marquis II, at the Bissonnet location, that goes all the way back to 1980. [Photos here - so, yes, the building is white]

West Alabama Ice House - The current building was built around 1950. There were ice houses off and on in this location before that, with various different names (e.g. McDuffie Ice House, Morgan's Ice House, S&K Drive In) but the "West Alabama Drive Inn" first appears in the city directory in 1952. [Photos here and here]

There are detailed timelines in the links posted in post 43. Among these four, it's probably too close to call without knowing more. And I haven't started looking at bars in private clubs and restaurants (which might require going to Austin to search the old TABC records), which some might argue should be taken into consideration. But I'm going to have to take a break from the research for a while to get some other things done - will try to get back to it when I can.

[old_Sharpstown]

she said the owner of la carafe Bill Berry moved to California in the early 80's. Dan Mattutat and Carl, the manager, were running the place for a few years. Bill wanted out cause he couldn't be there to see over things, plus the place was in desperate need of repairs. when warren was forced out on milam, the place where warrens is now came on the market and was also owned by bill berry. warren just wanted the place

Not really relevent here...but I do recall Carl. He was a very muscular black dude? If so, he would often drop by the bar I worked at downtown before he started work at La Carafe in the evenings and he would have a Strawberry daiquiri. He was a very nice guy. I had heard that he died around 1987-1988 from some sort of bacterial infection.....

Just misc. info....

[tmariar]

she said the owner of la carafe Bill Berry moved to California in the early 80's. Dan Mattutat and Carl, the manager, were running the place for a few years. Bill wanted out cause he couldn't be there to see over things, plus the place was in desperate need of repairs. when warren was forced out on milam, the place where warrens is now came on the market and was also owned by bill berry. warren just wanted the place

Not really relevent here...but I do recall Carl. He was a very muscular black dude? If so, he would often drop by the bar I worked at downtown before he started work at La Carafe in the evenings and he would have a Strawberry daiquiri. He was a very nice guy. I had heard that he died around 1987-1988 from some sort of bacterial infection.....

Just misc. info....

Sad that he died, presumably too young, but I really like hearing these stories. These bars have all survived as long as they have for a reason - and the owners, employees, and regulars were undoubtedly a major part of it. (Might be a silly comparison, but I think bars have a lot in common (in good ways) with fora like HAIF.)

Sorry for having to put a temporary hold on the research, but it was taking up a lot of time. I'll get back to it soon, I hope. What others have contributed has been as or more interesting to me, though, so I hope others with memories of the places/people mentioned above will stumble upon the thread every now and then.

[mkultra25]

Sorry for having to put a temporary hold on the research, but it was taking up a lot of time. I'll get back to it soon, I hope. What others have contributed has been as or more interesting to me, though, so I hope others with memories of the places/people mentioned above will stumble upon the thread every now and then.

Another one you may want to add to your list, which I can't believe I didn't think of earlier: the venerable TK Bitterman's, across and down the street a bit from the West Alabama Ice House. I believe it's been there at least as long as the Gingerman. Not a candidate for the oldest bar in Houston per se, but it's thrived for years with a loyal core of regulars.

[tmariar]

Another one you may want to add to your list, which I can't believe I didn't think of earlier: the venerable TK Bitterman's, across and down the street a bit from the West Alabama Ice House. I believe it's been there at least as long as the Gingerman. Not a candidate for the oldest bar in Houston per se, but it's thrived for years with a loyal core of regulars.

Good suggestion - sure I'll add it to the list. I've only been there a couple of times, but it does have an atmosphere similar to a number of these other places. Isuredid mentioned it above, and I'll check out the Rudyard's connection.

[sevfiv]

Another one you may want to add to your list, which I can't believe I didn't think of earlier: the venerable TK Bitterman's

is the Bitterman's the same namesake of Market Square Bar and Grill?

[musicman]

Another one you may want to add to your list, which I can't believe I didn't think of earlier: the venerable TK Bitterman's, across and down the street a bit from the West Alabama Ice House.

kent owns market square bar and grill as well. he's there quite regularly.

[isuredid]

This is an article from the June 8th, 1962 Issue of The Houston Press right after La Carafe opened

[isuredid]

[tmariar]

Thanks for posting the newspaper article. The city directory lists the building as vacant in 1962 and 1963, but this article (which also talks about the building have been vacant for a short time) seems to establish that the city directory was just not timely updated. That's helpful information.