[ricco67]

Discovery Green is probably going to have an advantage over quite a few of the other projects downtown.

While the rest of the projects are waiting for a major tenant to sign on, DG's speculative stance will likely fill spaces as it's being built for some of the smaller firms that are currently being squeezed into some of the other buildings around town.

perhaps DG won't have one MAJOR tenant, but it will be filled by quite a few smaller companies that need the space and are often neglected by the current crop of buildings that are out there.

[Montrose1100]

ArchitecturalPRGirl, on Tuesday, March 27th, 2007 @ 2:04pm, said:

Well my firm designed our building downtown 20 years ago then moved in January 2006 after rennovating it. I think we may be one of the few though. Does anyone know? We have designed several other office building downtown as well.

Heritage Plaza? (1987) Only skyscraper I can think of built 20 years ago.

[Greens!]

I am hoping that this boom turns out to be real. I would honestly like to see a nice spire as a part of our skyline. Even if it isnt the tallest, it will still give downtown a more modern look. The new condo towers are great but for the most part, they are all the same color with the same design theme. I would like to see more creativity in the designs for these buildings so they compliment the CBD rather than merely add to it. Something like this will not only look good but will make a statement for Houston. As long as they don't build too many of them. After all, we are the Space City.

[ricco67]

Greens!, on Friday, March 30th, 2007 @ 10:19am, said:

all i can say is: "massage appliance."

anything more and i'll get banned .

[Greens!]

Yeah i know. The guy who designed it called it the "Penis" and seems to be obsessed with "devices" like these in his designs. I just brought it up because it is modern and gives the city a space age look.

[lockmat]

Greens!, on Friday, March 30th, 2007 @ 10:41am, said:

Yeah i know. The guy who designed it called it the "Penis" and seems to be obsessed with "devices" like these in his designs. I just brought it up because it is modern and gives the city a space age look.

Where is that? And no thanks, I don't want a "massage appliance" in our skyline. Although, it is cool lookin.

[MidtownCoog]

[dbigtex56]

lockmat, on Friday, March 30th, 2007 @ 2:41pm, said:

Where is that? And no thanks, I don't want a "massage appliance" in our skyline. Although, it is cool lookin.

It's the Swiss Re headquarters in London ( 30 St Mary Axe) aka "The Gherkin".
"The building also won the 2003 Emporis Skyscraper Award for the best skyscraper in the world completed that year."

[feufoma]

dbigtex56, on Friday, March 30th, 2007 @ 5:52pm, said:

It's the Swiss Re headquarters in London ( 30 St Mary Axe) aka "The Gherkin".
"The building also won the 2003 Emporis Skyscraper Award for the best skyscraper in the world completed that year."

Actually, I believe the original pic is of a scraper in Barcelona. And, yes, I'm sure we're going to get something near Dicovery Green with much less emotive impact than the building exhibited if and when a new scraper is built in DT Houston. I'm sure we'll continue to play it safe for the all mighty profit motive while other cities encourage profitable development that strives for architectural significance... Don't 'cha just love the Houston development community? They couldn't design their way out of a box. Actually, I take that back. We have a city of boxes... Simply stunning 90 degree angles...

[Montrose1100]

The SwissRe Hq' looks like a bullet, the one in spain looks like a bloody... plug. There was one WTC design that was ridiculous, they spiraled up and looked like a pair of adult novelties.

This post has been edited by Montrose1100: Saturday, March 31, 2007 at 12:28 AM

[Greens!]

I actually thought the one in Spain looked like a lava lamp at night. But you are right, Houston probably wouldn't build anything unless it was cheap. We are a city of supporting towers looking for a focal point.

[Mister X]

feufoma, on Friday, March 30th, 2007 @ 11:10pm, said:

Actually, I believe the original pic is of a scraper in Barcelona. And, yes, I'm sure we're going to get something near Dicovery Green with much less emotive impact than the building exhibited if and when a new scraper is built in DT Houston. I'm sure we'll continue to play it safe for the all mighty profit motive while other cities encourage profitable development that strives for architectural significance... Don't 'cha just love the Houston development community? They couldn't design their way out of a box. Actually, I take that back. We have a city of boxes... Simply stunning 90 degree angles...

I'd rather live in a city full of squares than a city full of dildos.

This post has been edited by Mister X: Saturday, March 31, 2007 at 12:25 PM

[dbigtex56]

Mister X, on Saturday, March 31st, 2007 @ 3:06am, said:

I'd rather live in a city full of 90 degree angles than a city full of dildos.

Why not both? We have plenty of room.

[Mister X]

There is plenty of room in Houston for innovative, cutting edge architecture, but I would rather see more low profile, box type buildings in downtown or even no new skyscrapers at all than have a hideously ugly, uncircumcised, atrocity that would spoil the Houston skyline forever. At least as it exist now, people don't make dirty jokes about Houston's skyline.

I love fresh design as much as anyone, but building just for the sake of being different doesn't work. Odd angles, ornimentation, and spires don't necessarily make a building good. The Houston skyline has a lot going for it. The boxy buildings only make the ones that are not, seem special. If all the buildings in downtown screamed out for attention and hit you like a punch in the face, we may as well be living in Dubai.

Discovery Tower isn't even more than a gleam in someone's eye at the moment and people are already griping about it. Lets just ASSume that it will be dull and start the pointless and endless complaining now. Forget about the positives. Forget about adding density. Forget about the removal of another surface lot. Let just focus on what's wrong with a building that doesn't even have a fixed floor count, let alone a finished design for us to critique.

[Saddleman]

I want to live in that city. Sounds like a lot of fun.

[Mister X]

Not my thing - but I see your point.

This post has been edited by Mister X: Saturday, March 31, 2007 at 12:23 PM

[bkjones98]

ricco67, on Friday, March 30th, 2007 @ 10:40am, said:

all i can say is: "massage appliance."

anything more and i'll get banned .

My thoughts exactly.

[houstonfella]

Ummm... to get back on the CBD being poised for a building boom, more good news for this topic.

From HBJ: "My survey of the downtown market indicated to me that space in Class A buildings is so tight that if you found yourself out of room and needing room to grow ... you could find yourself in trouble without many options," Tudor says.

More Leasing

[Houston19514]

A couple of interesting tidbits from the Staubach 1st Quarter 2007 report on Houston's CBD:

-- 92% Class A office occupancy!

-- Hines has TWO sites on Main Street under development. So, perhaps both the West Building block AND the Shamrock block (City Centre!!) might be under development.

They also state that "new delivery of office space will not occur until fourth quarter 2010."

Man, the developers have got to get some dirt moving!! With even moderate absorption in the coming years, downtown will be bursting at the seams.

[Subdude]

Houston19514, on Monday, June 11th, 2007 @ 5:09pm, said:

A couple of interesting tidbits from the Staubach 1st Quarter 2007 report on Houston's CBD:

-- 92% Class A office occupancy!

-- Hines has TWO sites on Main Street under development. So, perhaps both the West Building block AND the Shamrock block (City Centre!!) might be under development.

They also state that "new delivery of office space will not occur until fourth quarter 2010."

Man, the developers have got to get some dirt moving!! With even moderate absorption in the coming years, downtown will be bursting at the seams.

Do the two Hines propoerties under development on Main include the parking garage currently under construction?

It seems that if the West Building block were under consideration for redevelopment that the owners wouldn't have invested money in improving the Montague Hotel on the block. Wouldn't Hines have to buy out all the properties on that block to build there?

[GovernorAggie]

Subdude, on Monday, June 11th, 2007 @ 7:51pm, said:

Wouldn't Hines have to buy out all the properties on that block to build there?

I would hope not. There is some engineer that has the answer, I'm sure (a la 717 Texas). The questions becomes, is it cheaper to build around Montague or just buy it, demolish it, and have the whole block.

[Houston19514]

Subdude, on Monday, June 11th, 2007 @ 7:51pm, said:

Do the two Hines propoerties under development on Main include the parking garage currently under construction?

It seems that if the West Building block were under consideration for redevelopment that the owners wouldn't have invested money in improving the Montague Hotel on the block. Wouldn't Hines have to buy out all the properties on that block to build there?

The report was talking mostly about office space development; and, when it referenced projects that were under construction, it said they were under construction, not just "under development." So I would think they were NOT referring to the parking garage.

For clarification, my reference to the West Building block was merely based on the earlier speculation here and elsewhere regarding that block being the Hines development block (because of their reference to it being the last blighted block on Main Street). My reference to the Shamrock block is just based on our HOPE that Hines is working on developing that beautiful City Center mixed-use tower someone spotted on the architect's site.

[The Great Hizzy!]

You all know it doesn't take much to get my wheels turning concerning the West Building. Less talk, more redevelopment!



And man! 92% Class A absorption for DT? The rents are going to be going through the roofs until some new space comes online.

[Trae]

What's the difference between Class A or Class B? More amenities?

[bkjones98]

Trae, on Tuesday, June 12th, 2007 @ 2:33pm, said:

What's the difference between Class A or Class B? More amenities?

$

[strickn]

The common wisdom was that only the first two or maybe three buildings to become financially viable would wind up getting built. It looked like the Cullen Center corner was going to be one of those, but there still is no design associated with Thomas Phifer's name, while Houston Center and Hines have both gone on to announce additional spec possibilities downtown.
Has anyone heard anything from Brookfield?

Houston19514, on Monday, June 11th, 2007 @ 5:09pm, said:

A couple of interesting tidbits from the Staubach 1st Quarter 2007 report on Houston's CBD:

-- 92% Class A office occupancy!

-- Hines has TWO sites on Main Street under development. So, perhaps both the West Building block AND the Shamrock block (City Centre!!) might be under development.

They also state that "new delivery of office space will not occur until fourth quarter 2010."

Man, the developers have got to get some dirt moving!! With even moderate absorption in the coming years, downtown will be bursting at the seams.

[swtsig]

strickn, on Monday, June 23rd, 2008 @ 12:16am, said:

The common wisdom was that only the first two or maybe three buildings to become financially viable would wind up getting built. It looked like the Cullen Center corner was going to be one of those, but there still is no design associated with Thomas Phifer's name, while Houston Center and Hines have both gone on to announce additional spec possibilities downtown.
Has anyone heard anything from Brookfield?

haven't heard anything out of brookfield, although it is a nice looking 50-story tower that would be a fantastic addition to our city's skyline... with all the delays in groundbreaking and the decrease of demand for CBD space that we're currently seeing, folks around here aren't optimistic that 6HC will ever get off the ground - hopefully that's not the case. i wouldn't hold my breath for brookfield either, at this point.

that being said, trammellcrow owns a property several blocks north of discovery tower where they're hoping to put another tower... but that would probably be several years out.

[TheNiche]

Trae, on Tuesday, June 12th, 2007 @ 2:33pm, said:

What's the difference between Class A or Class B? More amenities?

From best to worst, building classes are:

Trophy
Class A
Class B
Class C
Class D

Sometimes people will also talk about "Class A++" or "A-" or "B+". But it is really kind of subjective, taking into account not only recency of construction, amenities, and interior finishes, but also visibility and accessibility. Ultimately the best measure of Class probably is, very simply, the rents that can be charged.

[JWW]

TheNiche, on Monday, June 23rd, 2008 @ 11:00am, said:

From best to worst, building classes are:

Trophy
Class A
Class B
Class C
Class D

Sometimes people will also talk about "Class A++" or "A-" or "B+". But it is really kind of subjective, taking into account not only recency of construction, amenities, and interior finishes, but also visibility and accessibility. Ultimately the best measure of Class probably is, very simply, the rents that can be charged.

Trae, someone (I believe Niche, maybe someone else) wrote a little more thorough explanation several months ago. Don't know if there is a way to search for the post.. we are about to start a new thread that addresses questions such as these - post there and hopefully the very informed, like Niche, can discuss there

[swtsig]

JWW, on Monday, June 23rd, 2008 @ 11:21am, said:

Trae, someone (I believe Niche, maybe someone else) wrote a little more thorough explanation several months ago. Don't know if there is a way to search for the post.. we are about to start a new thread that addresses questions such as these - post there and hopefully the very informed, like Niche, can discuss there

it's all about amenities - interior and exterior finishes, location, amenities provided, etc... it's the same concept as hotel ratings, you get nicer room with more amenities in a great location for a higher rate.

but the niche is right, there's no real measuring stick that distinguishes the classes... it's purely subjective. if you can fetch a premium price, you're sitting on Class "A" space.

[lockmat]

swtsig, on Monday, June 23rd, 2008 @ 11:47am, said:

it's all about amenities - interior and exterior finishes, location, amenities provided, etc... it's the same concept as hotel ratings, you get nicer room with more amenities in a great location for a higher rate.

but the niche is right, there's no real measuring stick that distinguishes the classes... it's purely subjective. if you can fetch a premium price, you're sitting on Class "A" space.

It's subjective to a point, right? I thought someone commented that Class A must have a parking garage?

[LTAWACS]

swtsig, on Monday, June 23rd, 2008 @ 9:37am, said:

haven't heard anything out of brookfield, although it is a nice looking 50-story tower that would be a fantastic addition to our city's skyline... with all the delays in groundbreaking and the decrease of demand for CBD space that we're currently seeing, folks around here aren't optimistic that 6HC will ever get off the ground - hopefully that's not the case. i wouldn't hold my breath for brookfield either, at this point.

that being said, trammellcrow owns a property several blocks north of discovery tower where they're hoping to put another tower... but that would probably be several years out.

There were renderings? Is there a link?

[TheNiche]

lockmat, on Monday, June 23rd, 2008 @ 11:57am, said:

It's subjective to a point, right? I thought someone commented that Class A must have a parking garage?

Typically, that is true. But if you've got a nice new office building in a half-decent location in a third/fourth-tier market (i.e. College Station, Temple, Waco, Lufkin, or even Conroe) you might be able to get away with surface parking and still be Class A.

Another good example of subjectivity comes from Hines, which has been mouthing off that it is impossible to be Class A without being LEED Certified. For downtowns and major edge cities in first-tier cities, I don't doubt it for a second. And that also may apply in second-tier cities like Austin that have aggressive 'green' building incentive programs. But that doesn't necessarily hold true in the suburbs of San Antonio. Truth be told, though, LEED Certification is too easy as it stands, and will almost certainly be made more difficult to get by the end of this year...at which point it becomes once again a tribute to the best of the best and not just every Class A building that gets built.

[swtsig]

lockmat, on Monday, June 23rd, 2008 @ 11:57am, said:

It's subjective to a point, right? I thought someone commented that Class A must have a parking garage?

see niche's post... one does not have to have a garage to be called Class "A" (i've never even heard that mentioned as a qualifier), but i'd assuming having a good parking ratio would factor - garage or not. i believe there are a handful of class "A" buildings sans garages currently under construction in the energy corridor.

LTAWACS, on Monday, June 23rd, 2008 @ 2:21pm, said:

There were renderings? Is there a link?

for what building, five allen center (brookfield)? i've seen the brochure, but i dont have access to one nor do i know where a rendering could be found online... sorry.

TheNiche, on Monday, June 23rd, 2008 @ 11:32pm, said:

Typically, that is true. But if you've got a nice new office building in a half-decent location in a third/fourth-tier market (i.e. College Station, Temple, Waco, Lufkin, or even Conroe) you might be able to get away with surface parking and still be Class A.

Another good example of subjectivity comes from Hines, which has been mouthing off that it is impossible to be Class A without being LEED Certified. For downtowns and major edge cities in first-tier cities, I don't doubt it for a second. And that also may apply in second-tier cities like Austin that have aggressive 'green' building incentive programs. But that doesn't necessarily hold true in the suburbs of San Antonio. Truth be told, though, LEED Certification is too easy as it stands, and will almost certainly be made more difficult to get by the end of this year...at which point it becomes once again a tribute to the best of the best and not just every Class A building that gets built.

agreed.

[GovernorAggie]

swtsig, on Tuesday, June 24th, 2008 @ 10:11am, said:

for what building, five allen center (brookfield)? i've seen the brochure, but i dont have access to one nor do i know where a rendering could be found online... sorry.

Could you provide a description?

[swtsig]

think sleek 50-story silver glass rectangular parrellogram, attached garage with green rooftop... there actually might be another "green" terrace or two, but i cant recall.

the things i do for you people.

This post has been edited by swtsig: Tuesday, June 24, 2008 at 11:24 AM

[GovernorAggie]

swtsig, on Tuesday, June 24th, 2008 @ 11:24am, said:

the things i do for you people.

...are greatly appreciated!

[nate]

There is a rendering of Five Allen Center on p. 12 in this report

1.2 million square feet, Q1 2013 completion.

As for 1500 Smith, the only information is that it is planned to be 0.5 million square feet.

[Mister X]

nate, on Tuesday, June 24th, 2008 @ 12:47pm, said:

There is a rendering of Five Allen Center on p. 12 in this report

1.2 million square feet, Q1 2013 completion.

As for 1500 Smith, the only information is that it is planned to be 0.5 million square feet.

Bravo, Nate.

[swtsig]

nate, on Tuesday, June 24th, 2008 @ 12:47pm, said:

There is a rendering of Five Allen Center on p. 12 in this report

1.2 million square feet, Q1 2013 completion.

As for 1500 Smith, the only information is that it is planned to be 0.5 million square feet.

not a great picture but that is it.

[lockmat]

That presentation was done this month? It says completion of Q1 2013? That's pretty quick for not even broken ground yet, isn't it? I thought Hines was supposed to be completed in 2012?

[strickn]

Attached File(s)

•  5allen.jpg (21.13K)
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This post has been edited by strickn: Tuesday, June 24, 2008 at 2:46 PM

[Boris]

[Trae]

I hope Five Allen looks like that. Nice.

[Montrose1100]

I have a question about the Rendering on the Report... Is the Glass Facade transparent, with a 1970's box inside, or is that simply a relfection?

[Houston19514]

lockmat, on Tuesday, June 24th, 2008 @ 2:44pm, said:

That presentation was done this month? It says completion of Q1 2013? That's pretty quick for not even broken ground yet, isn't it? I thought Hines was supposed to be completed in 2012?

2010