Could Ferguson MO happen here?

[Heightsite]

Well? When anger dictates, facts are suppressed, injustice is on-going and no mediation in site, where are the solutions?

[IronTiger]

Probably not. Remember, Houston never had the race riot problems like so many other cities did, partially because it integrated early for the purposes of business. Here's a bit of an article quoting one William Lawson, an 85-year-old African American preacher for the Rose of Sharon Baptist Church in Freedmen's Town:

 

The reason Houston escaped big race riots, Lawson says, was not black or white but green: “Houston was not Klan-oriented, Houston was money-oriented.” City leaders met upstairs at the Rice Hotel downtown and agreed that the new Astrodome, space center, and other innovations were attracting big businesses to Houston, but “if we have Birmingham [racial conflict] in Houston, that’s gone.” They agreed that all businesses would “quietly desegregate. All the department stores would simply let customers come in and try on clothes. All the restaurants would just open their doors and people could just come in. They would take down the ‘white’ and ‘colored’ signs off of buses and drinking fountains.”

%5Bsource%5D

[Luminare]

Bingo IronTiger! Exactly what I was going to say. Good business has always helped to mitigate tensions in the past and with the migration of more Oil companies, HQ relocations, and a possible rise in Aerospace....i don't think it would be in the cities best interest to get to the position to have race riots. Of course lets not be naive and say that racial separation of territory hasn't happened in here. Even deep separation by social standing and money, but I think our city is so diverse that it will continue to shift around and get better.

 

Also I don't know if we have idiots in HPD that shot guys 6 times even if they were charging at them.

 

Finally, it really depends on if the media makes it an issue. One of the biggest crimes to have gone on in all of this is news networks making this into a national issue when it isn't. It's incredibly localized and should only be a state issue at the highest. Sending Eric Holder down there isn't going to do a darn thing. This isn't something where you look at this and say 'what does this say about america' or crap like that. If anything it says that people will exploit a situation such as this to get any kind of gains possible. From the people rioting just so they could loot stuff, to journalist looking to make this into the next 1960's riots, and to further alienate people to the fact that as a nation we have made significant strides as far as equality and continue to do so more than any other country in the world.

[Slick Vik]

Yes. Just takes one

[gnu]

Moody Park Riot

[kylejack]

Houston certainly has race problems, but not the same kind of police problems.

 

If you look at how the Mayor has handled mass protests, her methods have been far more effective than other cities. Other cities like Oakland tried to confront groups like Occupy rather than just manage them. Our Mayor told them they could stay in the park as long as they followed certain rules (no tents, for example). The group mostly fizzled out on its own here with very little violence or arrests. 

 

When Quanell X's group marched onto 288 and shut it down, the police managed to resolve it without resorting to violence. These cops are clearly under orders to work with these groups and resolve conflicts non-violently whenever possible.

 

When police resort to unnecessary violence (as in Occupy Oakland, Occupy New York, Ferguson, etc.) the people strengthen their resolve. 

[arche_757]

Of course it could.  Though it is my understanding that Furgeson has seen issues similar to (perhaps not as big) as this in the past few decades.  So the community is somewhat used to police trouble... if that's the right word.  Honestly if the Open Carry people had held their "meet-up" in the 5th Ward then we might have seen some really big issues erupt from that.

 

I do find the over militarization of the police (using swat teams to serve warrents for minor offenses to non-violent people for starters) a HUGE problem in the coming years.  The police, and defense contractors supplying them won't give up on getting/having these new, high powered weapons and vehicles.  Frankly only the military and major swat teams in big cities need high-tech equipement such as we're seeing everywhere.

[mollusk]

Houston has certainly had its problems over time; granted, not as big as Birmingham, Watts, etc., but still they occurred.  I hit teh Googelz, and one of the very first hits was http://www.houstonarchitecture.com/haif/topic/10563-infamous-riots-in-our-city/ , largely about the 1967 TSU riot.  Some contributors to that thread still post here.  I also found some materials on the Moody Park riot in 1978 here and here.  I was in grad school here at the time, and those two articles pretty closely follow my recollection, though they omit mention that Phil Archer and Jack Cato, Channel 2 guys at the time, both got stabbed; Cato quite seriously.

 

A huge difference is the contrast between HPD then and now.  I'm certainly not saying that the department is perfect now, but at least it's no longer being run by our very own local version of Bull Connor, nor has it been for quite some time.  What does disturb me, though, is the militarization and "bad azzing" of the force, even down to such subliminal things as black shirts and cars rather than blue.

[Ross]

The change in car color is due to Ford only providing that color, and HPD's lack of desire to spend money repainting.

[mollusk]

I'm pretty sure Ford, Chevy, and Chrysler are all still making white cars.  HPD vehicles have been white for quite some time with the blue being in the form of applied decal stripes.

 

I'm also pretty sure that the supply of blue dye for shirts has not vanished.  

[plumber2]

Moody Park Riot

I worked in an office downtown in the summer of 1978 when the Moody Park riot happened, and I was sharing a cubicle with a young hispanic girl. Being sensitive, I asked her what she thought of the riot and her repsonse was "Stupid Mexicans". I never brought it up again.

[kylejack]

Houston has certainly had its problems over time; granted, not as big as Birmingham, Watts, etc., but still they occurred.  I hit teh Googelz, and one of the very first hits was http://www.houstonarchitecture.com/haif/topic/10563-infamous-riots-in-our-city/ , largely about the 1967 TSU riot.  Some contributors to that thread still post here.  I also found some materials on the Moody Park riot in 1978 here and here.  I was in grad school here at the time, and those two articles pretty closely follow my recollection, though they omit mention that Phil Archer and Jack Cato, Channel 2 guys at the time, both got stabbed; Cato quite seriously.

 

A huge difference is the contrast between HPD then and now.  I'm certainly not saying that the department is perfect now, but at least it's no longer being run by our very own local version of Bull Connor, nor has it been for quite some time.  What does disturb me, though, is the militarization and "bad azzing" of the force, even down to such subliminal things as black shirts and cars rather than blue.

 

And don't forget the riots that erupted after Houston Police assaulted a black soldier based out of Camp Logan. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Houston_Riot_(1917)

 

But you're exactly right. We still have plenty of bad apples in HPD, but the difference now is that on an institutional level the officers clearly seem to be under orders to clean up their act and not escalate an encounter whenever possible.

[KinkaidAlum]

There's been a huge change in HPD from even the 1990s.

 

I remember attending a pro-choice rally in 1992 at the Republican Convention near the Astrodome. Across the street, a group of ACT-UP AIDS protestors were doing their thing but without a permit (side bar, since when did protests start requiring permits in public spaces?). Out of nowhere came a cavalry of mounted HPD officers who rode into the ACT UP folks with clubs swinging. I watched in horror as a few people got their heads bashed in with NO warning. It was truly gruesome. I doubt that would happen today but it was sadly not surprising back then.

 

[skwatra]

http://www.houstonchronicle.com/local/gray-matters/article/Old-revolutionaries-never-die-They-go-to-5704374.php#/0

 

 

Various sources report that among those arrested in Ferguson, Mo., this week is one Travis Morales, a Brooklyn-based representative of the Revolutionary Communist Party.

Does the name seem familiar?

 

It's the same Travis Morales of the Revolutionary Communist Party prominent in Houston's own history of police-related riots. Morales, a Rice student, was charged with inciting "felony riot" related to the the 1978 Moody Park Riot.

 

[arche_757]

^That is always a problem.  Outsiders coming in either with their own agenda, or thinking that they are helping locals and distorting things to such an extent that its harmful.

 

As for the police.... I find the militarization very alarming!  I've said it before, and I'm reiterating it.  Someone needs to remind police forces they are here to serve and protect.  Protecting the innocent does not include intimidation.  Frankly, I think Law Enforcement officers need more training on top of what is required.  I'd also like to see all police forces make more of an effort to address the fact these men/women are here to serve the communities they're hired to work in.

 

Defense contractors have gotten into bed with the Pentagon and convinced them to sell military grade weapons and hardware to people who probably only need a service revolver (in 99.9999999% of all cases where they require deadly force).  Of course a .48 special isn't really cool looking like an AR-15 with red-dot scope and pistol grips etc.

 

And I'll never understand this "brothers in arms" nonsense.  Military guys/gals are different.  Serving in a war is a far cry from walking a beat!  That's for damn sure.

[msteele6]

If the people of Ferguson want justice I have one word of advice for them:

 

Vote.

[plumber2]

If the people of Ferguson want justice I have one word of advice for them:

 

Vote.

I agree. I kept hearing the media state the racial inequity on the city council, and school boards. The only way that happens is through apathy and by not voting. The national media left statements open ended like the inequities were the result of some type of appointment from the state level that caused this. Shame on the media for pointing it out like that, and shame on the residents for allowing it to happen.

[lockmat]

I'm not sure how an unemotional thinking black city representative changes things much. Color should not cloud someone's judgement. That's why lady justice wears a blind fold.

To answer the OPs question, this can happen anywhere people rush to judgement without evidence, facts, and the complete story. If injustice is made after that, I could understand a little more. But to make a decision before that is unwise.

[mollusk]

If the people of Ferguson want justice I have one word of advice for them:

 

Vote.

 

That could be the solution, because they don't. Among black residents, a single digit turnout in the last municipal election. Why? I'm afraid that having everybody voting is not a popular option in some quarters.  For example, http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Government/2014/08/18/Missouri-GOP-Michael-Brown-Voting-Registration-Booths-Disgusting.  Also, http://www.dailykos.com/story/2014/08/18/1322606/-Ferguson-s-election-turnout-is-terrible-by-design-Here-s-how-to-fix-it#.

 

I'm not sure how an unemotional thinking black city representative changes things much. Color should not cloud someone's judgement. That's why lady justice wears a blind fold.

To answer the OPs question, this can happen anywhere people rush to judgement without evidence, facts, and the complete story. If injustice is made after that, I could understand a little more. But to make a decision before that is unwise.

 

I agree that an unthinking city representative won't change much, whether black, brown, white, or plaid. 

 

Likewise, color shouldn't cloud someone's judgment, but let's get real here. It does.  

 

Missouri's history is different from the rest of the Midwest. It was truly a "border state." Slavery was legal. It (and Kentucky) joined the CSA without seceding. And the southern part of Missouri has more in common with Arkansas than it does with northern Missouri, much less Iowa. 

 

I'm from here, lived in Louisiana for a couple years during the long hot summers, and have plenty of kin in Louisiana and Arkansas. But I didn't see what bigotry was really like, up close and personal, until I went to Springfield, MO for college. Shoot, some of those nimrods don't even like to be around Catholics (such as my college room mate's mother, who blurted out "but... but... you're so NICE!?!?!" when she found out, just weeks before graduation, that I was raised in the arms of Holy Mother The Church).

 

And that's how someone gets a summary death penalty for jaywalking.

[KinkaidAlum]

AMEN, mollusk.

 

I've been laughing for a week now as my right wing friends talk about "it's their fault cause they don't vote" while ignoring the putrid 17% white voter turnout. I also think people often ignore another key reason some people don't vote... Voting takes place on workdays and usually during work hours. If you work at Burger King, do you think your boss is going to give you time off to vote? What if you don't have a car? What if you don't have a driver's license? What if, due to poverty, you move a lot (poor people tend to move a lot more than wealthy folks) and forgot to update your voter registration? 

 

 

[IronTiger]

I'll choose to withhold my opinions on the matter until the real story is made clear. After all, the Trayvon Martin case was widely mis-reported, so I have reason to believe there's a part of the story not being told.

[plumber2]

AMEN, mollusk.

 

I've been laughing for a week now as my right wing friends talk about "it's their fault cause they don't vote" while ignoring the putrid 17% white voter turnout. I also think people often ignore another key reason some people don't vote... Voting takes place on workdays and usually during work hours. If you work at Burger King, do you think your boss is going to give you time off to vote? What if you don't have a car? What if you don't have a driver's license? What if, due to poverty, you move a lot (poor people tend to move a lot more than wealthy folks) and forgot to update your voter registration? 

 

Yes, but you still have to make the effort, even if you're poor and transient. It's the only way they are going to break the current jerrymandered control of the local government office holders.

[KinkaidAlum]

I agree. I always vote but I can see why more and more people fail to. 

 

As for the misinformation in the Treyvon case, what in the world are you talking about? 

[IronTiger]

As for the misinformation in the Treyvon case, what in the world are you talking about?

Doctored 911 call audio released, misleading photos for the initial presentation of what happened, trying to spin it into a racial conflict from the get-go, etc.

Nevertheless, Ferguson is a different thing (and has, apparently, some real issues), so despite my jaded cynicism, am willing to give the news media the benefit of the doubt and not immediately attack them on mishandling the truth until that is proven or disproven. Only then will take a side in the issue.

[lockmat]

I agree. I always vote but I can see why more and more people fail to.

As for the misinformation in the Treyvon case, what in the world are you talking about?

Like all big stories like this and shootings etc, false information was initially reported and the facts sometimes don't come out until the trial. People run with misinformation and use it to support their case like the crowd immediately after the second killing in St. Louis this week. People yelling "hands up" when they don't even know a thing, then the video comes and shows the kid was totally in the wrong and had a knife walking towards the cops yelling "shoot me."

The these same people either don't bother to find out the truth or suppress it, or maybe they just want to stay in their ignorance bc of an agenda.

My point is, let's wait until the trial to find out the details. People rush to judgement before knowing them.

[mollusk]

Demanding the right to vote and then exercising it was an agent of change 50 years ago, and it needs to be again.

 

It never ceases to amaze me that in what is supposedly a democracy, there are those who fail to realize that if their ideas are so unappealing that they have to resort to disenfranchisement and other forms of game rigging, perhaps a reevaluation of those ideas might be in order.

[JLWM8609]

 Here's a bit of an article quoting one William Lawson, an 85-year-old African American preacher for the Rose of Sharon Baptist Church in Freedmen's Town:

 

%5Bsource%5D

 

Just a correction. Rev. Lawson is not affiliated with Rose of Sharon Baptist Church. He is the founding pastor of Wheeler Avenue Baptist Church in Third Ward. He was Senior Pastor at Wheeler from 1962 to 2005, and my family has been honored to personally know him over the past five decades.

[IronTiger]

Just a correction. Rev. Lawson is not affiliated with Rose of Sharon Baptist Church. He is the founding pastor of Wheeler Avenue Baptist Church in Third Ward. He was Senior Pastor at Wheeler from 1962 to 2005, and my family has been honored to personally know him over the past five decades.

Their mistake, not mine. Unfortunately, like so many articles, most of it is behind a paywall now...though I can tell you that the first thing I noticed was the consistent misspelling of "Bissonnet". 

[Luminare]

I honestly have no beef with the police having a few military weapons. Because we really don't have civilian militia's anymore it kind of makes a little since for someone to have it in case of an emergency. On the other had you don't want them having to much because then you literally have a standing army in your own town or city which is very alarming!

 

If they want military weapons then they should go to boot camp or other types of military training...or no weapons. Plain and simple. Especially if they go into training like this they will learn that there are ways of immobilizing someone instead of killing them. The fact the cop shot him like 6 times is indicative of the fact that it's not the guns fault in this matter, it's the cops training and attitude toward his own job. In that situation what was more important to him was his own life rather than trying to save the life of another. 

[luciaphile]

To complaints that people don't exercise the right to vote:

 

I've noticed that people are easily manipulated by demagogues, but that left to their own devices, they tend to have a kind of bedrock common sense.

And, pace Kinkaidalum, voting, while never more pointless, has never been easier, amounting to a trip to the grocery store in the weeks leading up to an election.
 

I'm left to conclude that if the blacks of Ferguson don't bother to vote, it's because they understand what the simpletons in the media do not: most problems don't have political solutions. Would that they did.