[houtexas7]

Will the Westpark Tollway have an entrance ramp from Highway 6 to WT eastbound? If not, why was this busy interchange left out?

http://hctra.com/eng...estpark_map.pdf

[kjb434]

You can exist off of HWY 6, make a left and get on the tollway.

It won't have a direct connector if that's what you want.

This doesn't mean that one in the future may not be needed.

[houtexas7]

Well, direct connector or not, I'm wondering if there will be an entrance ramp close to Highway 6. The closest I'm seeing is at Eldridge, and that is at least 2 or 3 stop lights down Alief Clodine from Highway 6. That is terribly inconvenient.

[kjb434]

Westpark Map

There will be an exit between Eldridge and HWY 6 at Sugarland-Howell Road.

I'm think you'll just make a left at the light and get on the Tollway.

It says temporary though.

[tomv]

This morning for some reason the temporary entrance at Sugarland Howell and Alief Clodine was closed. Traffic was backed up for at least a half mile trying to get through the light at Eldridge and enter the eastbound tollway. I hope this is not what it's going to be like once the temporary entrance is closed permanently. Since I take Bellaire to Metro Drive and enter the tollway that way, I missed most of the traffic and don't know why the temporary entrance wasn't open. It may be closed for good.

And just to rub salt in the wounds of frustrated commuters who are already paying dearly for the privilege of using the Tollway, there were two officers with radar guns pointed at traffic heading east a few miles past the bottleneck. Perfect to catch a motorist who can't afford to be late for work and needed to make up for some of his lost time.

[westguy]

A-C is really screwed up. They should've just built the damn frontage roads, instead of screwing up the configuration of the roads like that. It is nice when you pay over two bucks to get there in fifteen minutes, and then you have to wait thirty minutes just to make a right turn. But they already have your money, so who cares?

[houtexas7]

From what I understand that temporary exit has now been permanently closed. I noticed that they have replaced the exit sign on Highway 6. Now it says Westpark Tollway and Alief Clodine. Sure doesn't say anything about having to exit, then drive over a mile on Alief Clodine and through at least a couple stoplights to get on.

[Rehan]

The traffic at the Eldridge light should improve when they open up the entrance at FM 1464.

[tomv]

The tollway is now open all the way to Westpark, which is just east of 1464. That explains why the temporary entrance at Sugarland Howell is closed. So now motorists wanting to go east on the tollway from southbound Hwy 6 will have to go through 5 lights to get there: 2 at Alief Clodine and Hwy 6, 1 each where Alief Clodine intersects Sugarland Howell, Metro Drive, and Eldridge. Then fork over $2 to get to 59. Can you say DIRECT CONNECTOR?

Notwithstanding this flaw, I'm very impressed with the Westpark Tollway. It's being built very rapidly, and it really is fairly unobtrusive as it snakes it's way past apartments and residences along the way. I would like to know if there any complaints at all from folks who live in the affluent subdivisons of Royal Oaks and Shadowlake, which are just north of the freeway.

An expressway like this, with no service roads, no billboards, no toll plazas, nice divider walls, and only four lanes wide should set the standard for future freeways that need to be built in close in areas where there's not much right of way. Building the extension of the Fort Bend Parkway from Loop 610 to S Main down Post Oak, for instance, should not be that difficult after building the Westpark Tollway.

The proposed Heights Toll Road will probably never get built, but I'm sure a road like this is what planners had in mind.

And the purple signs along the tollway are cool!

[houtexas7]

Has this lack of access from Highway 6 been addressed by the toll road authority at all in the past?

[westguy]

Doesn't it look like there are ramps to Hwy 6 just slightly north of the tollway? (link)

[tomv]

westguy, on Friday, June 10th, 2005 @ 3:53pm, said:

Doesn't it look like there are ramps to Hwy 6 just slightly north of the tollway? (link)

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

All I see is one ramp from the westbound tollway to Hwy 6 north, and another ramp from the northbound Hwy 6 service road to the westbound tollway. Even with this second ramp, motorists have to go through a light first at Alief Clodine.

[kjb434]

And, either of those ramps get you going Eastbound.

[houtexas7]

I drove through the area today, and actually, no, those ramps head westbound with no eastbound access at all.

[kjb434]

oops, sorry, I mean westbound.

[tomv]

The last two days traffic on the Westpark Tollway eastbound during rush hour has been VERY heavy. Stop and go in places starting east of Eldridge with average speed down to 30-40 mph or so. School of course is in session and the tollway has just been completed all the way to the Grand Parkway, so those are factors. But it's a bit disturbing to think that the freeway may already be at capacity at least during rush hour. It's already expensive, $3 from Grand Parkway to 59, and I hope they don't have to start charging more during rush hour to thin the herd out. By the way I get off at Fondren so I don't know how congested the rest of the road is east of there in the morning, but it doesn't look good...

[Original Timmy Chan's]

tomv, on Tuesday, August 23rd, 2005 @ 9:23pm, said:

The last two days traffic on the Westpark Tollway eastbound during rush hour has been VERY heavy.  Stop and go in places starting east of Eldridge with average speed down to 30-40 mph or so.  School of course is in session and the tollway has just been completed all the way to the Grand Parkway, so those are factors.  But it's a bit disturbing to think that the freeway may already be at capacity at least during rush hour. It's already expensive, $3 from Grand Parkway to 59, and I hope they don't have to start charging more during rush hour to thin the herd out. By the way I get off at Fondren so I don't know how congested the rest of the road is east of there in the morning, but it doesn't look good...

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I go westbound (outbound) on the Westpark Tollway in the mornings, so I've seen those traffic jams you're talking about.

Be glad that you get off at Fondren; at 8:00 this morning the eastbound (inbound) side of the Westpark Tollway was STOPPED from US 59 all the way out to Jeannetta (west of Fondren). I'm guessing that's at least a mile or two of sitting and burning $2.50/gallon gas!

I've never seen traffic that bad on the Tollway, but I do see it backed up from 59 at least once every week or two.

[kjb434]

Is it the ramp to US 59 inbound that is backed up? What about the eastbound lane to Westpark Road and Post Oak/Richmond?

[RedScare]

Trying to gauge whether commuters think it's worth it, do you think the trip is quick enough before the traffic jam that commuters still save time over taking 59? And, does 59 back up in that area, too?

This tollway empties it's entire flow onto the street at its terminus, is that correct? If that is true, then this traffic jam would just be a big line at the stoplight. A look at longer light cycles might be in order.

[kjb434]

The terminus at Post Oak and Richmond can handle lots of traffic. The intersection is quite large.

The terminus at Westpark Road just before the loop just merges in without losing any lanes and seems fine.

I think the biggest issue is people getting off the Tollway and getting on US 59. I can see out that ramp would back up, but there is little the tollway can do to relieve this problem since it is caused by US 59. Even in this situation, a lane is free to continue into Uptown (post oak/richmond terminus) and Greeway Plaza via Westpark Road terminus.

[ssullivan]

Yes, Plastic, they have. Ft. Bend County opened their section of the tollway this week. However, the interchange at the Grand Parkway is still under construction, as is the long-delayed project to finish the interchange with the Sam Houston Tollway.

[westguy]

The traffic is really bad now. Its like the Katy Freeway at rush hour on the WP Tollway. I knew they would ruin it eventually, but I did not think they would do it this quickly.

They need to demolish the connectors to the Grand Parkway immediately. This thing can't handle a all the Cinco Ranch people who are trying to cut a few miles off their commute because they drive gas guzzlers.

[tomv]

If you do get on from far West Houston heading east, check your gas tank. Once you pass FM 1464, there's no exit for 8 miles. You can't get off until Beltway 8.

[Rehan]

I haven't been using the tollway much anymore to commute because the time savings has been going down.
I live near Briar Forest@Wilcrest and work near Kirby@610. Barring any major accidents, I-10 is about the same or faster than the tollway, and its free.
I have used it a few times at rush hour westbound to visit my parents in Sugar Land and the traffic really starts moving once you pass Highway 6.

[westguy]

I usually get on around Eldridge. I really think it shouldn't go further because the density around Westchase and the energy corridor will naturally increase the ridership of the toll road. This thing should definitely not go outside of Harris County because FBCTRA royally screwed this up by making it the main route for all their new housing additions.

I don't know what to say. It's only going to get worse because of the development springing up on the west end of it. There's no room to expand it either, therefore it is destined to become an expensive parking lot.

[RedScare]

This all sounds like what they say about building or expanding highways is true. They don't relieve congestion. They add to it, because people see it as an alternative and jump on it.

It's a shame that it filled up so quickly. Maybe the commuter rail will help.

[Lowbrow]

Last I heard the "ridership" on the Hardy was underwhelming. Has that changed?

[tomv]

westguy, on Thursday, August 25th, 2005 @ 12:36pm, said:

It's only going to get worse because of the development springing up on the west end of it. There's no room to expand it either, therefore it is destined to become an expensive parking lot.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

There's no room to expand it, but...since it's all-electronic, it should be easy to implement staggered pricing (higher tolls during peak periods, lower tolls during slow periods) that would help to control demand. If it costs $5 to use it in the morning rush hour (versus $3 now from 99 to 59), some folks will find alternatives, such as surface streets or riding Metro. The bus fare could end up costing less than the toll.

Also, when the rebuilding of I10 is finished that should help a great deal since the two freeways run parallel just a few miles apart from each other.

[westguy]

They could price it out of range, but then I don't see how it adds to mobility at all. It isn't quite a necessity like bridges and tunnels. They've expanded it far beyond its originial design and created this mess in the process.

[bcnet]

I just moved to the south area of Cinco Ranch to the west of 99 off Fry Road and use the WP Tollroad every day to travel to the Post Oak near San Felipe in the Galleria area.

Since the coniciding start of school and extention to the Grand Pkwy there are some slowdowns near the last eastbound entrance just west of BW8 and then again near the 59/Westpark curve split. Near the Beltway, I'm wondering some entrance ramp lights or a longer merge lane may help this congestion. The congestion near the westpark curve is due to the narrow construction lanes as they have some temporary looking pumps for drainage which slows people to a crawl. The light at Post Oak and Richmond and the end of the Tollroad has never been back up over the past several months.

I timed it again this morning.

It is 25 miles from my driveway to my office parking garage. I was really amazed the 1st time measured this, but the WPTR is a very direct shot from South cinco Ranch to the Galleria. I left at 7:20 this morning and pulled into my parking spot at 7:56 for a 36 minute commute. Whoever compared this to communting down the Katy Freeway is a little off.

[tomv]

bcnet, on Friday, August 26th, 2005 @ 1:59pm, said:

I just moved to the south area of Cinco Ranch to the west of 99 off Fry Road and use the WP Tollroad every day to travel to the Post Oak near San Felipe in the Galleria area. 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Glad to hear some of the problem may be due to construction at the Westpark curve on 59. What a great commute, 36 minutes from Cinco to the Galleria area.
What is it like earlier in the week? (rush hour traffic is always lighter on Fridays).

Beware, there are some on this forum who will think you are evil incarnate for buying a home in the 'burbs and driving in to town each day to work. Especially if you have an SUV.

Isn't it unusual to see that sign just before FM1464 that says "next exit 8 miles"?
Maybe someday there will be better access to and from Hwy 6 and the toll road.

[Rehan]

Rehan, on Thursday, August 25th, 2005 @ 11:22am, said:

I live near Briar Forest@Wilcrest and work near Kirby@610. Barring any major accidents, I-10 is about the same or faster than the tollway, and its free.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

bcnet, on Friday, August 26th, 2005 @ 12:59 PM, said:

I just moved to the south area of Cinco Ranch to the west of 99 off Fry Road and use the WP Tollroad every day to travel to the Post Oak near San Felipe in the Galleria area.

It is 25 miles from my driveway to my office parking garage. I was really amazed the 1st time measured this, but the WPTR is a very direct shot from South cinco Ranch to the Galleria. I left at 7:20 this morning and pulled into my parking spot at 7:56 for a 36 minute commute. Whoever compared this to communting down the Katy Freeway is a little off.

different scenarios...

[kjb434]

Direct connectors to I-610 would be the stupidest idea. The point of the Westpark tollway is to have traffic get to Uptown (exit to post oak/richmond), downtown (exit to US 59), and Greenway plaza (westpark road terminus).

Connecting to I-610 would put the common traffic patters into disarray.

[Original Timmy Chan's]

Inbound traffic this morning around 8:30 am was bumper to bumper from US 59 out past Jeannetta, nearly back to Gessner. It was moving, but FULL.

[bcnet]

This morning, my wife, son (baby in day care at my wife's office), and I left for work early on our 25 mile commute down the WPTR. We left the house at 6:40am and arrived at work at 7:07 for a 27 minute trip. At this earlier time, there was really no slowdown at either of the before mentioned areas near BW8 and the "Westpark Curve". We were cruising with the flow of traffic at about 65-70mph on the TR.

I'm wondering if the user rate is running higher or lower that what the HCTRA & FBTRA projected? Anyone have any contacts at the TR authorities? Just curious.

[kjb434]

I just remember that the facility was labled a minimal facility. The project would have 50 more feet of right-of-way if the pro-rail forces didn't intervene. I'm split about that decisions. The corridor wouldn't have been served by LRT well. Maybe commuter rail, but I feel a wider toll road facility of 6 lanes would have been better.

US 59 merger inbound would have allways been a problem since the geometrics make the fit kind of tight.

[ssullivan]

kjb434, on Monday, August 29th, 2005 @ 3:33pm, said:

I just remember that the facility was labled a minimal facility.  The project would have 50 more feet of right-of-way if the pro-rail forces didn't intervene.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

That's not entirely true. There was never an organized effort by anyone to preserve space for a light rail line along Westpark by anyone other than Metro. Metro purchased the old railroad right of way from Union Pacific and then several years later agreed to sell a portion of it to the HCTRA for the Westpark Tollway. But there was any organized effort by business interests in the city who support rail to do this; Metro simply wanted to preserve its plans to eventually run rail in the corridor. Metro's original intent with the corridor had been to build an HOV lane to connect to the three park and ride lots and Hillcroft Transit Center that are along Westpark and Alief Clodine.

As for the route not being served well by light rail, what makes you say that? If light rail is ever built in the corridor, it will be a dedicated right of way with limited stops designed to serve as a high-capcity means of moving people from the Mission Bend, Westchase, and Gessner Park and Rides and the Hillcroft Transit Center to Uptown, Greenway, and Downtown. Service along this route would like have very limited stops and operate at pretty high speeds because of being in its own right of way. The original plan was for this route to connect to the Red Line at Wheeler, where some trains could potentially continue into Downtown. This has changed with the plan to extend the line east to the UH Central Campus. The advantage for light rail along Westpark, if the line is ever extended westward, is that the same trains that serve the line west of Uptown will be able to continue east to Greenway, Montrose, Wheeler Station, the Third Ward, TSU, and UH. Commuter rail in the corridor presents a big problem -- how to get the trains from the end of the dedicated right of way, which is along the Southwest Freeway near Shepherd, to downtown, since commuter trains wouldn't be able to continue to Downtown via the Universities light rail line.

The only advantage of running commuter rail in the corridor over light rail is potentially more capacity; however, longer light rail trains could be used in this corridor to increase capacity. A three-car light rail train on this line could carry up to 600 passengers; with 6 minute headways, that's 6,000 people moved per hour in each direction at peak capacity. Once trains are past the Uptown area in the dedicated right of way parallel to the tollway, grade separations could be built without much trouble for the line to cross major streets like Hillcroft, Fondren, Gessner, etc. that cross under the Westpark Tollway. Speeds through this area could easilly approach 60 MPH with light rail; I doubt we'd see commuter rail operating much, if any, faster than that.

[kjb434]

Good explanation. I remember METRO was very pro-rail under brown and wouldn't sell the land. If the METRO wasn't pro-rail at the time, I could see the Westpark Toll Road using the full right of way.

The Houston Freeway's book also goes through this event pretty well.

[westguy]

METRO was pro-rail, but it was in one of Brown's terms that the project got started. I don't know what the turnaround was. Maybe they didn't need all the land when they decided to place rail there instead of HOV lanes. I think it was after construction began that FBCTRA was formed and got involved with the project. I know someone decided to use this to sell crappy lots near Cinco Ranch probably to Fulshear. The fact is that someone got greedy and overstretched this thing. It is only 50' wide, now handling the traffic of a major freeway. There are no feeders, so cars basically have to sit idle on the ramps at SHT and Post Oak until the traffic lights change.

[kjb434]

I can see variable pricing coming into affect eventually, but I'll think they'll wait until the Katy Freeway completed to test the system out.

Also, some people are using the Westpark to avoid the Katy while it's under construction since both routes get you to uptown and downtown.

[ziggy29]

kjb434, on Tuesday, August 30th, 2005 @ 11:55am, said:

I can see variable pricing coming into affect eventually, but I'll think they'll wait until the Katy Freeway completed to test the system out.

Also, some people are using the Westpark to avoid the Katy while it's under construction since both routes get you to uptown and downtown.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

That's a good point. It's possible that one the Katy Freeway project is completed, some of the traffic now using the Westpark will no longer need it. The unknown here is how much the Katy project will help traffic flow, and how much it will do little more than encourage more exurban development.

[ssullivan]

westguy, on Tuesday, August 30th, 2005 @ 11:49am, said:

Maybe they didn't need all the land when they decided to place rail there instead of HOV lanes.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

They never really needed all the land. They just bought it all because it was all in one strip owned by Union Pacific. It wasn't a case where Metro said they wanted only 50 feet of the 100 foot right of way (or whatever the exact measurements were). They bought the entire right of way to preserve it for future transit development, then later on sold part of it to the HCTRA. The Westpark Tollway was designed to preserve Metro's right of way and allow for rail to be added at some point in the future.

The original proposal for the Westpark Tollway dates back to around 1998 or so, but it was several years before HCTRA really got things moving by acquiring the right of way from Metro and the city (part of the Westpark Tollway sits where lanes of Westpark used to be).

[kjb434]

Yeah,

They did everything they could to maximize the Tollway and keep Westpark road the same. I think they did a very good job in the end.

[bcnet]

ziggy29, on Tuesday, August 30th, 2005 @ 12:49pm, said:

That's a good point.  It's possible that one the Katy Freeway project is completed, some of the traffic now using the Westpark will no longer need it.  The unknown here is how much the Katy project will help traffic flow, and how much it will do little more than encourage more exurban development.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Not scientific data by any means, but on my commute from near Fry and hwy99 the large majority (75%+) of the traffic on the Westpark TR originating at Hwy99 is coming down Hwy99 from the North (Katy proper). I would not be surprised if even people north of I-10 are coming down Hwy99 to take the Westpark avoid the Katy Frwy while under construction. Just my general observation.

[kjb434]

Thanks for the observation. I was figuring at least some people from the Cinco Ranch area headed south to the Westpark Tollway, but coming from north of I-10 would be further than I thought.